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Benson
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Joined: 14 Feb 2017
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:02 am    Post subject: Cornet Reply with quote

Hi Everybody,

For a while now, I've played a Bach 180S37ML with a Prana B6S1. I am very pleased with this set-up. I play in a concert band, practice regularly, and teach instrumental music allowing me to play all day and stay in shape. Things have been working for me for a while and I couldn't be happier.

Recently, I have started down the path of (finally) learning the Clarke cornet solos. I know I can play them with my current set-up. However, if I were to ever go the route of playing them as solos with a band, I'm baffled as to what cornet to choose.

I am looking for some kind of explanation of cornet set-ups, the pros and cons of each. For example, would a solo instrument be useful in a section? Is large bore or Medium Large bore the way to go? Bell sizes? Shepherd Crook? Are there certain styles of mouthpieces that work well with one set-up and don't work with another? Before I start this journey, I want to know at least what direction to start walking.

Thoughts?

Thanks, Benson
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Richard III
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Joined: 22 May 2007
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Location: Amador County, CA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems a simple choice. Play with your current setup or go with a vintage and period correct setup.
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For Sale: Cornets: Conn 80A, King Long Cornet Silvertone, King Cleveland Superior.
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Christian K. Peters
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Joined: 12 Nov 2001
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Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:19 am    Post subject: Cornet Reply with quote

Hello Benson,
I personally like the shepherds crook cornets as I also play in a British style brass band. I Have an old York Professional, but it did not play well as the valves were really leaky, I bought a Yamaha 2335 that served me well, until I found that I needed something better. I looked into the Yamaha 6335, The Bach 184, The older LA Benge and the early Getzen 3850 I believe. Somewhere in the mix, a Schilke A1 came my way. After that horn, an XA1. I played a friends Yamaha Neo, and was very impressed with the warmth is emitted. The Schilke is a lighter cornet in both feel and timbre.
Best to hope that your regional music convention will have some cornets to audition. Perhaps you can have the dealers bring cornets to the tables so you don't have to travel all over the country. ITG is in the midwest in May. That would be a trip, well worth the effort. I also would not play a C cup on a cornet. That loses the cornetty sound. I play a Warburton 5D or 5XD on my XA1. Others in my section actually play for of a funnel cup cornet style mp.
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Christian K. Peters
Oregon Brass Society
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Christian K. Peters
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Joined: 12 Nov 2001
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Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:28 pm    Post subject: Cornet Reply with quote

Hello,
I thought about what Richard said and an old Holton like Clarke had or a Boston 3 Star would be cool. Just have to find one that has been restored or has had a valve job.
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Christian K. Peters
Oregon Brass Society
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Richard III
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Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 1923
Location: Amador County, CA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Conn "The Wonder" built in 1903. It is a shepherd's crook and very small bore. It is a joy to play. If I only had one horn to play, that would be it. If you ever get a chance to play one, do it. And then buy it. Here's mine:

[img]CIMG2764 by genevie7, on Flickr[/img]
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Richard

For Sale: Cornets: Conn 80A, King Long Cornet Silvertone, King Cleveland Superior.
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dstdenis
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Joined: 25 May 2013
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Location: Atlanta GA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Benson. A few bits of info for you, which you might already know, but here goes: There are short model shepherds crook cornets and long model cornets. All other things being equal, the long models seem to sound closer to a trumpet than the short models. Long models are a favorite choice for traditional jazz, while short models are used in British-style brass bands and for playing 19th century cornet tunes and such.

The mouthpiece is important. If you use a similar mouthpiece shape as your trumpet mouthpiece, the sound difference will be subtle. Most people will think you're playing a trumpet. Cornet players often use a deeper mouthpiece to get a warmer, darker sound. But if you go too deep, it can be different to manage and live as a cross over player with both your trumpet and cornet, especially if you're playing difficult material, like 19th century cornet solos, on the cornet.

One option for you would be to buy an inexpensive used modern cornet in good shape, then find a cornet mouthpiece with similar rim as your trumpet mouthpiece but a bit deeper cup, maybe more funnel-shaped. It will sound and feel different, and you might find you really like it. In some ways, cornet seems easier to play on some material. Then if you stick with it, you'll have a basis to shop for a better model later on down the road if you want. Good luck.
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Benson
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Joined: 14 Feb 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, folks. I really appreciate your assistance. Have a lovely New Year!
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Andy Del
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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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Location: sunny Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Step 1 is to find the mouthpiece. Get a Monette B6fl cup on a cornet shank. Then you will be set up with a traditional type of cornet mpc (regardless of what the purists say - local BBB types here think it nothing of the brand, just that it produces the right sound).

Then find a cornet you like to play. From my safari of years ago, including advice rom Phil Smith, I went off reservation and got a Schilke XA-7. It was available and sounded great. If I had a choice I may have gone for the larger bore model, but it has not been an issue for me. My other cornet is an Olds recording. Just focus on finding something that works for you, and not the first horn you find.

Cheers

Andy
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adc
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Joined: 01 Mar 2019
Posts: 43
Location: Elizabethtown PA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could go into exhaustive detail but its TMI. I have played dozens of cornets in the last few years.

I own an 1883 Boosey/Fuchs, 1906 Conn-Queror, 1908 Conn Wonderphone, 1909 Conn Perfected W0nder, 1911 Perfected Wonder, 1916 York Improved Perfect, Have played others of that era.

Nothing matches Pre 1920 horns IMHO. If you want the Clark Sound that's what you "need". Mouthpieces are an issue. You need a short shank one..Yam short shank 11C4 does the trick.

Next best would be something like a Conn 28A Concert Grand, King Master, or possibly a Committee. Newer Cornets are just too bright.

See my videos by searching "101PSU1"
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1957Tim
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Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 152
Location: Hannibal Missouri

PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thompson Music in Omaha has a late 40's Martin Committee cornet in mint condition. Mike told me the case was a nice as the cornet, so if you're looking for one I would give him a call. I found him to be very personable.

-1957Tim
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Uberopa
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Joined: 11 Dec 2003
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
I have a number of cornets, Olds Ambassador, Conn 80A, Benge 8Z and Yamaha 2330. I have played the Holton Clarke model and found that it was easy to play loud but the sound was at best, unrefined.
Just my $.02.
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spitvalve
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Joined: 11 Mar 2002
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Location: Little Elm, TX

PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm surprised at what a great sound the Olds Ambassador student cornet gets. I picked up a 1964 vintage beater on eBay about a year and a half ago with the intention of fixing it up and reselling it. I made a few repairs--dents, replacing slides, etc. It had a beautiful cornet sound, nice and dark, and good response, agility, and intonation. My trumpet-playing son came home on a school break in August, so of course the first thing we did was retreat to my office with our horns and my recently expanded collection. Every time we practiced together, he kept picking up the Olds. He couldn't get over how easy it was to play and what a great sound it had. He fell in love with it, so I gave it to him for Christmas.

All of the other student cornets I've bought and sold sounded like trumpets. If you're looking for a good cornet on a budget, look for a decent Olds Ambassador cornet. Even though it's probably not as cosmetically appealing as your "true" cornets, it can be well worth the money, IMHO. The people at Olds really knew how to do quality work back in the day and made cornets that sounded like cornets.
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1979 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
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multiphonic
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Joined: 14 Oct 2019
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spitvalve wrote:
I'm surprised at what a great sound the Olds Ambassador student cornet gets. .


An Ambassador cornet is my daily player. Beautiful sound. I love it.

Keep this in mind if you consider older (pre ca. 1956) horns:
http://rouses.net/trumpet/cornetmpc/cornetmpc.htm
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adc
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Joined: 01 Mar 2019
Posts: 43
Location: Elizabethtown PA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard III wrote:
I have a Conn "The Wonder" built in 1903. It is a shepherd's crook and very small bore. It is a joy to play. If I only had one horn to play, that would be it. If you ever get a chance to play one, do it. And then buy it. Here's mine:

I believe it. Con made The Wonder, New York Wonder, Conn-Queror, Wonderphone, and the Perfected Wonder.

When the Factory burned down in April 1910 when they started up in Dec of 1910 only the Perfected Wonder survived I believe. Shortly after that they made the New Wonder with the micro tuner.

I have the 1906Conn- Queror, 1908 WonderPhone and a 1910 Perfected Wonder, and 1911 Perfected Wonder.

I love my 1908 Wonder Phone. It plays in A, Bb, B, and C. Small Bore..such a sweet sound. Next to my 1950 36A ( Concert Grand) and King Moaser Model. its my 3rd best player. (for me).


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plp
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, too many to list.

And kudos to you, that you recognize there is a different voice, to cornet from trumpet.

FWIW, back in my high school days, the guy that always cut me out at All State competition, played an Olds Ambassador trumpet, and just killed on all the Arban's stuff, was just phenomenal. It ain't the arrow, it's the archer.

However, he was the exception to the rule, for most of the Arban's repetitour, a cornet is mandatory.

I'm the original Conn 80-A fanboy, as there are just so many out there, and have acquired great ones from the 1940's to the 1960's, in great shape, very playable, replace the corks on the water keys and the corks and felts on the valves, and they play like a brand new instrument. The Conn valves were designed to not wear, were custom seated as part of the manufacturing process, and will go decades without wearing either the casing or the valve, if kept lubricated and clean.

It is not unusual to get a 1930's vintage cornet with 100% valve compression, even today. Again, the best bang for the buck out there, a bit more strident in tone than a true vintage cornet, but not so much so that it detracts from performance, just a bit more projection than the older more mellow cornets.

Entirely the wrong horn if you are looking for British Brass Band, look to the vintage Bessons and Yorks, and even modern Bachs and Yamahas, if you want that tone.

However, for a present day cover band doing oldies pop and Dixieland, there is none better than the Victor.
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Since all other motives—fame, money, power, even honor—are thrown out the window the moment I pick up that instrument..... I play because I love doing it, even when the results are disappointing. In short, I do it to do it.” Wayne Booth
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Dennis78
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Joined: 28 Feb 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have quite a few cornets and the two I find that are most versatile are the long bell shepherds crook models.
Lots of cornets out there
Short cornets with shepherds crooks
Short cornets with no crook
Long model cornets with shepherds crook
Long model American wraps
And cornets shaped exactly like trumpets
A lot depends on what you’d be using it for
My absolute favorite cornet is my Holton new proportions short model ( not the Couturier or Clarke model-those are both long cornets)
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And a bunch of other makes and models but getting it done with these
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VetPsychWars
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Buescher Model 265 cornet was used by some famous players. The Model 275 "The 400" is also a good choice, though the Model 265 "Custom Built" might be a bit better.

Because they are usually ignored, they are also seriously inexpensive.

Tom
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