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Mouthpiece frustration



 
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Eddy6125
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Joined: 29 Jan 2020
Posts: 1
Location: Arlington Hts, IL

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:30 am    Post subject: Mouthpiece frustration Reply with quote

Played on and off for years.
Play both 1968 Selmer K Modified and 1980's Blessing ML1.

Moved to 1 1/4 Bach and liked it, but wanted more range
Had Schilke make a 1 1/4 Bach screw rim with a B cup and A backbore, which I thought was the best of all worlds. Ummm, no.

Struggling with this mouthpiece as I work on upper rangeand get more serious about playing more as I enter the lovely 60's.(age)

While I never heard of "bottoming out" , after reading about it here, wondering if that could be an issue.
As I practice and get tired, I struggle to be clear and consistent at high C area. And do not like my tone.
I like the feel of the Bach 1 1/4 rim, but looking for a few suggestions.

Thanks!!!
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cheiden
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 7834
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inexpensive option: Bach 3C - a little smaller ID with a somewhat shallow C cup but very little chance you'll bottom out. Bach 3D is you want shallower than that, and a tighter backbore.

More costly option: Reeves 43M - Closer to your preferred 1.25 ID with a cup that's likely between your stock Bach 1.25 and the Schilke B cup. Seems a lot of commercial players favor these Reeves pieces. I have a good deal of lip intrusion and I don't bottom out on Reeves M cups. Contact Reeves on which backbore you're likely to want. If you're concerned about bottoming out you may want to avoid the S cup for now.

I base these suggestions largely on the notion that the Bach 1.25 may be a tad too large for you. That and my recollections playing Schilke B cups and A backbores.
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Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
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nieuwguyski
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Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 2021
Location: Santa Cruz County, CA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curry makes mouthpieces with his copy of a Bach 1.25C rim in just about every cup depth you could imagine.

http://www.currympc.com/index.php?id=47

I'd suggest trying to find used examples of some of the shallower models and see how they work.
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J. Notso Nieuwguyski
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Richard III
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Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 1942
Location: Amador County, CA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What sound concept are you shooting for?
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For Sale: Cornets: Conn 80A, King Long Cornet Silvertone, King Cleveland Superior.
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zaferis
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Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 1815
Location: Beavercreek, OH

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Bottoming out" - where the lips intrude into the mouthpiece and vibration stops as the lip tissue comes in contact with part of the cup...

I don't imagine that this is the issue, but hard to tell without watching you play.

I second the Curry line of mouthpieces. My suggestion is a Curry 3C. A touch smaller than your Bach 1 1/4, a remastered Mount Vernon 3C, bigger than a modern Bach 3C.. but also the rim shape is more friendly (to many) than a Bach rim.. Not only bigger in measurement but bigger in feel.
These have noticably helped me maintain, improve and continue - I'm 60 in a few weeks and switched from the Bach 1.5 neighborhood late in my USAF career.. I wish I had found Curry's stuff earlier.

Then within Curry's line you can get a variety of cup depths and shaped with the same rim - making it very easy to move from a commercial setup to a more traditional one i.e. 3* (star) to a 3C or 3B...
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JeffM729
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Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Posts: 293
Location: Parrish, FL

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A shallower mouthpiece isn't the answer to range and endurance issues. It can help somewhat but isn't the solution to the problem.

You need to work on developing those particular skills. Perhaps a lesson with a teacher would help point you in the right direction.
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cheiden
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 7834
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the current piece is a particularly bad fit, then changing rim shape and ID may help with range and endurance. Once the fit is reasonable then I expect in all generality that additional changes in cup, throat, and backbore might only result in very modest gains in range and endurance, though I'm sure there are exceptions.

*edited for clarity*
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart


Last edited by cheiden on Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:39 pm; edited 2 times in total
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JonathanM
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Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 1610
Location: Charleston, SC

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with cheiden and others above. If fatigue is a challenge, going smaller may work. When I was younger I used a Bach 1. Huge. Went to a Warburton 4, then to a size similar to a Bach 10.5... Then a bit larger; I've settled on a Reeves 41 rim - similar to a Bach 7C rim (but more comfy). Curry pieces are not expensive, especially here at TH's Marketplace. Try a 3, maybe even a bit smaller.

I'm a believer that lip size is one way to gauge comfort with a rim. I have no lips - it's easy for me to go small(er).

Good luck - try some smaller pieces - but let us know how it goes, ok? Good luck!
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Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: King SilverSonic ('55), CarolBrass 5000L-YLS, Conn N Y Symphony Special ('37), 12B ('39), King Silvertone ('50)
Cornets: Olds Special ('59), King SilverSonic ('62)
Mouthpieces: Reeves, ACB, Curry
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kevin_soda
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Joined: 20 Jan 2015
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Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of us just keep buying mouthpieces until we’ve practiced enough to find one that happens to work...
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Andy Cooper
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Joined: 15 Nov 2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Mouthpiece frustration Reply with quote

Eddy6125 wrote:

As I practice and get tired, I struggle to be clear and consistent at high C area. !


How long a practice time are we talking about ?
How do you feel the next day?
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zaferis
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Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 1815
Location: Beavercreek, OH

PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevin_soda wrote:
Most of us just keep buying mouthpieces until we’ve practiced enough to find one that happens to work...


GOLDEN !
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