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michael_bxl Regular Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2015 Posts: 93 Location: Between Brussels and Ankara
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Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:45 am Post subject: Hetman oil became Meinlschmidt ? |
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Hi,
I was planning to buy some Hetman branded valve oil but it is out of stock in the shops I went (in Europe).
http://www.hetman-eu.com/
( http://www.hetman.com is out of service) see edit
The website redirects us to https://www.jm-gmbh.de/schmiermittel/
Do you have any informations ? Did the name change ? Are those oils identical ?
Thank you
edit : the .com website works, but not in Turkey where some websites are blocked for no reason... _________________ Yamaha YTR-6335RC
Yamaha YFH-8310ZG
Last edited by michael_bxl on Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:40 am Post subject: |
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Try that .com link again because it just worked for me.
Something definitely is happening with Hetman. Many music instrument retailers have been out of stock of Hetman #1. I had a back order at Long and McQuade here in Canada for a couple of weeks and the order arrived yesterday so perhaps things are getting back to normal. _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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michael_bxl Regular Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2015 Posts: 93 Location: Between Brussels and Ankara
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Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:22 am Post subject: |
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Ok, I have checked the back of the bottles on Thomann.com where J. Meinlschmidt is listed from november 2019.
Both are from the same company, have the same address and phone number.
So... J. Meinlschmidt = Hetman
= _________________ Yamaha YTR-6335RC
Yamaha YFH-8310ZG |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:59 am Post subject: |
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I see your bottle says " Made In Germany ". The bottles I received Monday say
" Made In The USA ". Their USA company name is MUSIKWERKS, South River, New Jersey, USA. The American name sounds German. _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9033 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:21 am Post subject: |
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The American name just means "Music works", in this context "works" implies "company". What you don't say, is whether the "oil" is made in the U.S. or is imported from Germany and just sold through this company. It could be the same product, just distributed differently. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12664 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:28 am Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | The American name just means "Music works", in this context "works" implies "company". What you don't say, is whether the "oil" is made in the U.S. or is imported from Germany and just sold through this company. It could be the same product, just distributed differently. |
If you are referring to GeorgeB’s post, I think the words “ Made In The USA “ pretty clearly states where it was made. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9033 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Well, quibbling I suppose, but the U.S. containers and English text could be made in America but the fluid imported from Germany. In that case, it might be advertised as "Made in America". But I don't see why, actually. Frankly, I don't care where it's made, I'll use the stuff, anyway. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2416 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:32 am Post subject: |
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I don't think it's going to be clear where it's made, or who makes it. And I think this is by design. Maybe they purchased the right to make it themselves, maybe they purchased the company. But the Meinlschmidt website implies that THEY designed a new line of lubricants, while it seems like they're just selling re-branded Hetman lubricants.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12664 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:50 am Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | Well, quibbling I suppose, but the U.S. containers and English text could be made in America but the fluid imported from Germany. In that case, it might be advertised as "Made in America". But I don't see why, actually. Frankly, I don't care where it's made, I'll use the stuff, anyway. |
It is possible that the fluid could be imported, but that certainly would not be what the average citizen expects, nor what the law requires.
The declaration of where something was made is on the contents, not the packaging. |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12664 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:01 am Post subject: |
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There have been rumors about Hetmans products for a while now. And the redirection of the European link is interesting.
It certainly does cause one to think. I hope everything is ok since I really like and use their products.
But some of this could have a very simple explanation. For example shipping large quantities of fluids across the ocean is not cheap. So if I were selling valve oil in other continents I might pay a contract manufacturer to reproduce my formulas on the same continent.
In addition if the contract didn’t specifically prevent the CM from selling the product it is possible the CM might market it themselves. (Kind of sleazy in my opinion if not done with permission)
The CM could also use the formula as a starting point to produce their own unique variant.
Last edited by LittleRusty on Thu Oct 20, 2022 8:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:14 am Post subject: |
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As long as the quality of the product remains the same I honestly don't care were it's made. _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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michael_bxl Regular Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2015 Posts: 93 Location: Between Brussels and Ankara
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Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:44 am Post subject: |
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Anyway, next time you go to your oil seller, instead of Hetman, you may have to ask for some J. Meinlschmidt (yes, I copy-pasted the word, don't ask me to write it, even worse, to pronounce it) this is a - bad - joke... or not _________________ Yamaha YTR-6335RC
Yamaha YFH-8310ZG |
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Dennis78 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2015 Posts: 673 Location: Cincinnati
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Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:38 am Post subject: |
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Amazon is still in stock of the Hetmans line up _________________ a few different ones |
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trombahonker Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Nov 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Atlanta
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Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:25 am Post subject: |
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Hetman family is experiencing health-related issues and is essentially defunct, heading toward closure. Meinlschmidt has been the sole distributor for Hetman products in Europe for some years. When they were unable to secure more Hetman lubricants, they backward engineered them and are now producing their own identical "Hetman"-style lubricants for distribution in Europe.
Won't surprise me if they show up in USA, too. With Hetman out, the only game in town for a full line of synthetic lubricants is Monster Oil. _________________ Trombahonker's Practice Studio on Youtube |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9033 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:43 am Post subject: |
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Does anyone know the shelf life of these oils? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2416 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:41 am Post subject: |
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trombahonker wrote: | Hetman family is experiencing health-related issues and is essentially defunct, heading toward closure. Meinlschmidt has been the sole distributor for Hetman products in Europe for some years. When they were unable to secure more Hetman lubricants, they backward engineered them and are now producing their own identical "Hetman"-style lubricants for distribution in Europe. |
Where did you hear this? And is any of this verifiable?
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12664 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:02 am Post subject: |
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TrumpetMD wrote: | trombahonker wrote: | Hetman family is experiencing health-related issues and is essentially defunct, heading toward closure. Meinlschmidt has been the sole distributor for Hetman products in Europe for some years. When they were unable to secure more Hetman lubricants, they backward engineered them and are now producing their own identical "Hetman"-style lubricants for distribution in Europe. |
Where did you hear this? And is any of this verifiable?
Mike |
+1
Not challenging. But since hetmans is my go to oil, I really am curious. |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2416 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:08 am Post subject: |
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LittleRusty wrote: | TrumpetMD wrote: | trombahonker wrote: | Hetman family is experiencing health-related issues and is essentially defunct, heading toward closure. Meinlschmidt has been the sole distributor for Hetman products in Europe for some years. When they were unable to secure more Hetman lubricants, they backward engineered them and are now producing their own identical "Hetman"-style lubricants for distribution in Europe. |
Where did you hear this? And is any of this verifiable?
Mike |
+1
Not challenging. But since hetmans is my go to oil, I really am curious. |
Thanks for adding this LittleRusty. I'm not challenging the statement either. I'd just like to see what can be verified.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3310 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:46 am Post subject: |
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Regardless of the precise situation with the brand 'Hetman', it appears that oils sold under the 'JM' brand are very similar (identical?) and use the same scheme for naming the variety of oil.
Jay _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Dennis78 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2015 Posts: 673 Location: Cincinnati
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Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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Hopefully the blend is matched. Hetmans has been a miracle in quite a few of my horn and especially in my latest endeavor. Band supplied instrument was supplied with Blue Juice and a sticky first valve. After a good clean I switched to lanolin on the slides and Hetmans 2 on the valves and have had no trouble. I think my chemistry mixes well with Hetmans as does a lot of other various lubes and it would sure be ashamed to see it lost _________________ a few different ones |
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