Transposition

[JackD]

I was working on this with my teacher in my lesson today, and he told me not to think of it as up a tone for C, 2 tones for D etc, but rather to think in a key signature, and use your ears to fill in the gaps.

I never thought about it that way before, and it seems like a really good way of going about transposition, so I thought I'd share.

Sorry if this is obvious, but it wasn't to me!

Jack.

[Ralph]

Any advise or intelligent comments on the subject of transposition are always appreciated as far as I'm concerned. There are never too many ways to learn how to transpose although the only good way is to do it, a lot.

[trumpetmike]

The key signature form of transposition works brilliantly, if the work is basically tonal.
This is how I first started transposition. It makes the first steps very easy, then you find yourself playing some contemporary stuff and it all goes to pieces!
I now use a combination of changing the key sig and knowing the interval, depending on the style of piece and how awake my brain is. As with many things, if you can learn a couple of ways of doing them, you should find yourself ready for anything.
When it comes to teaching I tend to use whichever method I think the student will respond better to. If they are a very theoretically based musician, I am very happy to start with getting them to think every note up a tone.
If they are not so hot on their theory, I find that telling them to add two sharps to the key signature and just reading everything up a note usually works.
Both seem to work fine with a bit of practising.

[Peter Bond]

>>I was working on this with my teacher in my lesson today, and he told me not to think of it as up a tone for C, 2 tones for D etc, but rather to think in a key signature, and use your ears to fill in the gaps.

I never thought about it that way before, and it seems like a really good way of going about transposition, so I thought I'd share. <<

This method works if it's a piece or tune you know; playing by ear is a valuable exersise and useful skill. However, it can be a trap when you're playing in an orchestra and the arranger or composer departs in any way from the way the music lies in your memory. Also, it's a rare musician who can play inner parts by ear, and a clairvoyant one that can transpose by ear one that they've never heard before. Whether by clef or by interval, do the work; learn to transpose.
Peter Bond
Met Opera
Rutgers Univ

[Peter Bond]

>>I was working on this with my teacher in my lesson today, and he told me not to think of it as up a tone for C, 2 tones for D etc, but rather to think in a key signature, and use your ears to fill in the gaps.

I never thought about it that way before, and it seems like a really good way of going about transposition, so I thought I'd share. <<

This method works if it's a piece or tune you know; playing by ear is a valuable exersise and useful skill. However, it can be a trap when you're playing in an orchestra and the arranger or composer departs in any way from the way the music lies in your memory. Also, it's a rare musician who can play inner parts by ear, and a clairvoyant one that can transpose by ear one that they've never heard before. Whether by clef or by interval, do the work; learn to transpose.
Peter Bond
Met Opera
Rutgers Univ

[dbacon]

There's always the danger in rehearsal, on stage, you've got the wrong horn in your hand for what you are about to play. Develop your transposition skill, it will keep you from potential embarasment.

[bent trumpet]

I was watching the Birmingham Orchestra perform Mahlers 2 on the Ovation channel, and I noticed some of the trumpets were Bb and others looked like C or D. Do you think some of these guys were transposing or is the piece written for trumpets in various keys?

Also, could anyone tell what brand trumpets they were using?

[musicemt]

I just got a call to sub for an orchestra from an arts magnet school, and the orchestra director asked me to bring my Bb, C, and D trumpets! In high school! Why is it that young guys like myself are getting into the habit of just buying whatever we need equipment wise, instead of developing good fundamental skills on a Bb? Or am I just misinformed, and more equipment is considered an indicator of prestige/ability?

Ben
_________________
"Imitation, assimilation, innovation"
-Clark Terry

Zeus Guarnerius
Bach C 239 w/ Blackburn pipe/slide
Weril Regium flugelhorn
Yamaha 14B4-GP
Yamaha Shew-lead

[_Don Herman]

Maybe the conductor wants to ensure you blend with the rest of the section? Sometimes horn choice is based upon sound, not the music (or horn) key. Of course, this can be good or bad... I keep running into ballads that flugel is good for, but they're in concert E... - Don
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

[trumpetmike]

Don - "Sometimes horn choice is based upon sound, not the music (or horn) key."

How true, how true.
How often I have found this to be the case!

When going to an unfamiliar orchestral gig I usually carry a Bb, C, Eb/D, G, Bb/A piccolo and a cornet! You never can tell what they will ask for. Even when you have played the piece before, be prepared to change the instrument you use - follow the principal. If they don't express a preference, use the one you are happiest using.

In Surrey Brass we often find ourselves using Bb instruments for C parts and vice versa. Not just to show off the fact that between the 6 trumpeters we own a huge number of trumpets (quite possibly 100 between us!), but because we are after a specific sound for the piece in question.

[SCtrumpet1127]

Wow I really need to get some different kinds of horns. All I have now is a Bb, C (which I wanna through in the trash), a Shilke picc which I love, and a Flugel horn (which is not even mine). Well anyways, This was a ver informational forum.

Sammy

[Jon Arnold]

Back in college I played everything on a C trumpet in the orchestra. I would suggest a Bb if you are playing 'pops' music. I always transposed by the appropriate number of steps needed to play the piece. Get the Caferelli (sp?) book. Many players do change the key to transpose. Find a way that works best for you.

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Bach 37, Blackburn 19-348 Leadpipe, GR 3M
Yamaha 631, Warburton 4FL

[ This Message was edited by: Jon Arnold on 2004-03-04 10:51 ]

[JackD]

I think I'm right in saying that Bbs are the work-horses of British orchestras. The only other horn I've been asked to play is a flugel, not a different keyed trumpet.

[trumpetmike]

Jack - yep, that's right. You will find the Bb is your first trumpet of choice over here, although most players also have C, Eb, D and a piccolo in their weapons case!
Not to mention the cornet, rotaries and flugel - yes, even for orchestral stuff, sometimes.

From the groups I have played with (none major, but some pro and some amateur) the trend seems to be for using Bb for most standard orchestral repertoire, unless it is French or American, in which case many players are now using C trumpets in order to achieve the "correct" sound for those pieces, probably originally conceived for the C trumpet sound.

My advice to you (if you are intending to explore the orchestral world) would be to obtain an Eb/D next - these are probably the second most used instrument over here. Get to know every possible transposition on each of the trumpets you have, then think about another one.

My C trumpet was the last of the main instruments I use to be purchased. Until then I used my Bb almost exclusively. I now use whatever the principal is using or recommends. If I am the principal I use whichever I feel the music would work best on, not necessarily the one that the piece is written for.

There is a great list at the end of Delbert Dale's "Trumpet Technique" book which lists what he and Philip Jones use for many of the standard repertoire. I find it very interesting that at the time it was written Philip Jones used the C trumpet quite a bit more than many orchestral players have done recently. In the same way that many players in the US seem to follow the example of Bud Herseth and use a C trumppet for almost everything, many in the UK have followed the example of Maurice Murphy - Bb all the way.

[JackD]

Thanks Mike, I was wondering about what I should think about getting next. I've still got enough to work at with my Bb at the moment, but I'll bear that advice in mind.