Trumpet Bell Not Perfectly Round

[time_is_mula]

I have three trumpets now. I won’t name the brand out of respect but they are all handmade in the USA from a known manufacturer in the Midwest. Two of the trumpets have 1-piece bells and the other has a 2-piece bell. All three are brand new and recently bought. I noticed that both trumpets with the 1-piece bell have bells that are not perfectly round. E.g., if you put the rim onto a piece of paper and trace the circle of the rim, it’s not perfectly round. It’s a little bit oblong. The oblong part on both horns is where the bell seam is located. It’s almost like a small flat section in the diameter. The rim/bead looks perfectly round to the naked eye but when you run your fingers in a circular motion around the rim and/or trace the rim on a piece of paper it’s not perfectly round. The trumpet with the 2-piece bell has a perfectly round rim. My guess is that it’s probably due to its construction. It’s not entirely hand spun so the rim section can be perfected.

Is this normal and typical of handmade 1-piece bells? Should I be worried? Am I simply finding fault where there is none? Any feedback from other trumpeters would be greatly appreciated.

[RL]

I would say....don't worry at all...
You noticed small imperfections which don't matter...the more you're meassuring the more you'll find...go play them instead...

[Brad361]

There’s a saying among people who are wristwatch enthusiasts: magnifying glasses are the number one cause of watch imperfections....or something like that.

I used to obsess over similar minutiae, IMO, unless a horn (or anything else) has an imperfection that affects how it plays, fuhgetabowdit.😉

Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval

[time_is_mula]

Thank you all for your input. However, is this normal with 1-piece bells? Have other trumpeters experienced this as well?

[trumpetmandan]

[Christian K. Peters]

Hello all,
I would call the manufacturer and ask them about this imperfection.
_________________
Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976

[LittleRusty]

[time_is_mula]

[cgaiii]

[Christian K. Peters]

Hello all,
Still wondering...found a canister in the cupboard that had a slightly bigger 5" ID. My Schilke Bb's and C's fit as perfectly inside the bead as I could tell. The earlier Bb and C had 5" beads, while the newer had 4 7/8" beads. they all were consistent measures. The newer horns I think are side seamed, the older, I don't really know.
_________________
Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976

[LittleRusty]

[LittleRusty]

[yourbrass]

[time_is_mula]

Thank you all for your input. All jokes aside, it would be interesting to hear from brass technicians. After all, I have two brand new trumpets from the same manufacturer. Bought at different times from different online retailers, and the issue is more or less the same. Every other part of the horns look/feel flawless. If a manufacturer were to admit this issue as a by product of handmade hand spun 1-piece bells then people would ‘riot’ and ask for refunds. Not to mention that it would hurt their reputation.

The comment about the bell bead is interesting because that is an additional step in the manufacturing process and that could be the reason why the overall bell rim is a little bit oblong. Again, it’s oblong right at the bell seam area.

[LittleRusty]

[harryjamesworstnightmare]

So you're concerned that a hand made bell is not perfectly round? It's the sound that matters most. Think about the process in making a fine hand hammered and formed bell. After all the hand work is complete, including in many cases adding the rim wire, the bell is annealed to modify its hardness and tone. That means it is heated up to a high temperature and cooled back down. That process can warp metal or cause it to change shape. If to the eye it looks round then it's round enough for music. Machine made and skipping the last part of the process for the sake of productivity and to meet some manufacturing criteria is anathema to hand craftsmanship. Other than "checking a box" it does not matter.
_________________
Brian James
-------------------------
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Bach Strad 43 Sterling Silver Plus
Getzen Proteus
Yamaha 6335HS
Olds Super
Olds Mendez
Getzen Custom 3850 Cornet
Conn 80A
Getzen Eterna Flugelhorn

[J. Landress Brass]

If a bell bead is not round and is brand new it is a manufacturing error and defect. I have recently seen some new horns that the bell bead was not round and some even looked a bit tear dropped in shape from where the bead wire popped in the spinning process and the bell was finished when should have been scrapped. Though the horns played fine I personally would not want a horn with non round bell flare.

No one can say if the horn will play better with a different bell from the same maker or if you sent it to the maker or a technician the horn would make it play "better". If you are happy with the horn then do not worry and enjoy it for the years that you have it. If you are not happy contact the seller or maker and have a conversation with them about your concerns and let them take it from there.
_________________
Josh Landress
J. Landress Brass, LLC.
38 West 32nd Street, STE 908, NY, NY 10001
646-922-7126
www.jlandressbrass.com

[OldSchoolEuph]

The process of spinning the bell and installing the rim wire comes at the end of processing, after any annealing (as that would obliterate the solder in the rim among other negative effects), so it should be round. An uneven mandrel would chatter when working the bell, and that would have a myriad of undesirable consequences. As Josh points out, out of round is a defect on any bell spun on a lathe for final taper and rim formation.

However, so it is a defect, so what? The question is does it appear structurally sound and if so, how does it play? If you like the way it plays and it is not going to fracture or otherwise fail, don't mess with success.

Robb Stewart's experiments with severely elliptical bell flares are quite fascinating - highly directional and still magnificent sounding. If it works for you, why worry?
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20

[time_is_mula]

[J. Landress Brass]