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Blue Devil Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2002 Posts: 171 Location: Chicago, IL
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Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2002 8:06 am Post subject: |
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I'm on Lesson 14 in SA, and around this point is where you are now going back through the Clarke studies, to practice for as many repetitions in one breath. When you are now going for speed, do you still want to use all of the alternate fingerings for each Clarke study that Claude had you use the first time through? It would seem to me that if you were going for speed, the alternate fingerings may not be the optimum way to go. Then again, maybe that's the point - by practicing the exercises for speed in a way that is even more difficult than ordinarily could be can make you improve that much more. Does anyone know what Claude had his students do when doing the Clarke exercises for repetitions?
On a little side note, I was amazed to see that after going through the lessons as prescribed (spending two weeks on each one) and doing the breathing exercises, how much easier it was to now be able to follow Clarke's original directions. What once seemed ridiculously impossible (play each of the lines in the first Clarke study up to sixteen times in one breath, play the whole etude once or twice through in one breath, etc.) now after doing all of the material for this long, is relatively easy! Amazing how this stuff works!!
Mike Trzesniak |
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EBjazz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2001 Posts: 2368 Location: SF Bay Area
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Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2002 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Some of the alt fingerings are to make life easier. Some are exercises to strengthen the third finger.
Claude always made me do the alternate fingerings. There are many more than what is listed in SA.
So I would say do the alternate fingerings always.
Eb
_________________
Eric Bolvin
Trumpet, arranger, composer, keyboards
SF Bay Area
www.bolvinmusic.com
408.236.2009
[ This Message was edited by: EBjazz on 2002-07-02 14:53 ]
[ This Message was edited by: EBjazz on 2002-07-02 14:53 ] |
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mark936 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Apr 2002 Posts: 1254 Location: Riverside,Calyfornia
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Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2002 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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You asked what Claude had students do...
"Strike keys hard" or strike down hard.
He used to stamp that all over the pages and it really helps.
mm |
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mark936 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Apr 2002 Posts: 1254 Location: Riverside,Calyfornia
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Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2002 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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I have my Clarke tech studies in front of me.
Claude had stamps and he stamped each page with, "Lift Fingers High Strike Valves Hard."
"Big Breath Chest Up"
Second Study # 29 fingering he wrote in pencil above notes: 3 2 123 3/ 2 123 13 2/ 123 13 3 123/ 3 2 123 3/ 2 123 13 2/ 23 3 2 23/ 3 123 2 3/ 2 13 123 2/ and whole note=3
#31 first and third measure E fingering = 3.
second and forth measure E fingering = 12.
#32 last measure first E= 3 next E = 12.
#33 to the left he put a D.S. sign.
#36 all fingerings written in. no 12 used.
#37 he wrote to the left, "All A's and E"s with 3rd "
#39 he wrote, "All A's with 3rd "
#44 at the very end he wrote D.S. $ 8 vz through #37
That'll be a hundred dollars, please.
Hope that helps. I didn't ask why.
mm |
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Xenoman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2001 Posts: 1209
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Talk about frustrating! I'm doing this now and it slows me down to a crawl!! Should I even be concerned with speed at this point? Part of my problem is ignoring (or forgetting) the correct fingerings which I have pretty much memorized from prior practice. I also struggle with lifting my fingers high and striking hard. _________________ Eric M. Brewington
http://www.jazzbrew.com |
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EBjazz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2001 Posts: 2368 Location: SF Bay Area
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:25 am Post subject: |
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Xenoman wrote: | Talk about frustrating! I'm doing this now and it slows me down to a crawl!! Should I even be concerned with speed at this point? Part of my problem is ignoring (or forgetting) the correct fingerings which I have pretty much memorized from prior practice. I also struggle with lifting my fingers high and striking hard. |
Slow and steady wins the race. Practice to develop accuracy. The slower you practice these, the sooner you will be able to speed up and maintain your accuracy.
Use the false fingerings always. Some of them are to make them easier (such as Tech Study #2 at the top of the second page in the key of F where you use 3rd valve for all As and for all Es). Others (most of the others) are to give your 3rd finger more exercise.
The 3rd finger is the weakest finger. And it is also the one that is used the least when practicing, so it never gets to develop as much as fingers 1 and 2. But you can't use this as an excuse if you're on stage and you flub up a passage that requires intricate use of your 3rd finger ("Excuse me dear audience, but you see, I messed up that phrase because that tricky passage makes more use of the 3rd finger and not only is it the weakest finger, but in normal trumpet developmental playing exercises it is the least used of the three fingers, and..." (etc.).
I think it's better to thoroughly practice all the Clarke studies with the false fingerings given by Claude Gordon, then to have to make speeches to audiences such as the one above.
Cheers,
John Mohan _________________ Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student |
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Thermos Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 300
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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John Mohan wrote: |
I think it's better to thoroughly practice all the Clarke studies with the false fingerings given by Claude Gordon, then to have to make speeches to audiences such as the one above.
Cheers,
John Mohan |
Amen to that!
Did you get my email from a while back? I sent it directly to the email address I had for you rather than through TH, so if you changed it recently I sent it to the wrong one.
Well, I guess my questions sort of apply here, so I'll just post them:
Do you reccommend doing the long holds until the stomach shakes on clark studies as well (first time through book)? Anything else besides SA Part 1/DTR where it is written?
And also, speaking of DTR, how long is to be spent on each lesson?
Thanks,
Thomas
Oh, and these may seem to be directed at Mr. Mohan, but anyone who has experience with them feel free to speak up. |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Thermos wrote: | John Mohan wrote: |
I think it's better to thoroughly practice all the Clarke studies with the false fingerings given by Claude Gordon, then to have to make speeches to audiences such as the one above.
Cheers,
John Mohan |
Amen to that!
Did you get my email from a while back? I sent it directly to the email address I had for you rather than through TH, so if you changed it recently I sent it to the wrong one.
Well, I guess my questions sort of apply here, so I'll just post them:
Do you reccommend doing the long holds until the stomach shakes on clark studies as well (first time through book)? Anything else besides SA Part 1/DTR where it is written?
And also, speaking of DTR, how long is to be spent on each lesson?
Thanks,
Thomas
Oh, and these may seem to be directed at Mr. Mohan, but anyone who has experience with them feel free to speak up. |
Hi Thomas,
Sorry, I haven't been checking my e-mail very often. Pretty swamped with school.
Don't do SA type holds on the Clark material. If you're doing an SA part 1 exercise each day, you're getting enough of that type of exercise.
Spend one to two weeks on each DTR routine. Be sure to do all the models.
Cheers,
John |
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Thermos Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 300
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the clarification, no worries about not checking your email.
Good luck with school. |
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StartingUpAgainAt53 Regular Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 44 Location: Half Moon Bay, CA
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Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Hi All,
My trumpet teacher left his copy of Clarke's in his studio and doesn't have access during the Quarantine. Does anyone have the false fingerings for the 6th study? Just beginning that now.
Thanks!
Marc
P.S.
T Bertetta is my teacher. |
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EBjazz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2001 Posts: 2368 Location: SF Bay Area
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Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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Dude! Gotcha!
I'll be sending the Clarke right over!
But what is this really? Bertetta my friend for many years. Dude, he don't need no Clarke book. No way. I haven't looked at a Clarke in 45 years.
This time has been interesting. I know #32-37. #72. #91.
I know every number and key.
Bertetta does too.
So I suspect the validity of this post.
Eb _________________ Eric Bolvin
http://bolvinmusic.com/product/the-modern-jazz-trumpet-method/
www.bolvinmusic.com |
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StartingUpAgainAt53 Regular Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 44 Location: Half Moon Bay, CA
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Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:42 am Post subject: |
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Dude, you got me on this clever ploy to get a free copy of Clarke's TS
Yeah, Tom does know them backwards and forwards. Usually he pulls out his old, old marked up version and I quickly scribble down the false fingerings in my old but recently (2 years ago) unpacked version. Now we are doing lessons from home through Facetime and his copy is in his studio. Last night we spent about 5 minutes for him going through the first page or so of study 6 to figure out what they are because he doesn't have to think about them when he plays.
Came upon this thread when I Googled Claude Gordon False fingerings for Clarke's and was hoping someone already wrote them down like they did for the 2nd studies in the post above.
If anyone happened to do so and is willing to share it would be greatly appreciated.
If not stay healthy and best regards.
-Marc |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2044 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:55 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Does anyone have the false fingerings for the 6th study? Just beginning that now. |
Here is what I have marked in my book:
#118 First measure, 3rd valve for the low As
#120 6th measure, 3rd valve for the high A
#121 See #120
#124 First measure, 3rd valve for low As; 3rd measure, 3rd valve for Es; 7th measure, 3rd valve for Es
#125 3rd measure, 3rd valve for Es; 7th measure, 3rd valve for Es
#128 Second and fourth measures, 3rd valve for Es; Sixth measure, 2nd valve for high C#
#129 See #128
#130 Sixth measure, open for high D
#131 See #130
Have fun! |
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StartingUpAgainAt53 Regular Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 44 Location: Half Moon Bay, CA
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Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:09 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Dayton!
Practicing the horn has been a godsend during quarantine!
Cheers,
Marc |
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solo soprano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 856 Location: Point O' Woods / Old Lyme, Connecticut
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Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:53 am Post subject: |
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When you can do a Clarke study evenly, switch and play it left-handed until even as well. Your right hand control will improve significantly.
Play staccato and finger ahead.... Again very slowly and with each hand.
Rotate the trumpet 180 degrees, and play with your fingernails on the upstroke. It will clean up your finger technique.
And by creatively using alternative fingerings in our velocity routines we gain greater coordination and confidence when playing difficult passages. _________________ Bill Knevitt, who taught me the seven basic physical elements and the ten principles of physical trumpet playing and how to develop them.
https://qpress.ca/product-category/trumpet/?filter_publisher=la-torre-music |
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Jeff_Purtle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Mar 2003 Posts: 936 Location: Greenville, South Carolina
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Jeff_Purtle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Mar 2003 Posts: 936 Location: Greenville, South Carolina
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