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Which Flugelhorn for Jazz?


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coloradomacs
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 12:31 pm    Post subject: Which Flugelhorn for Jazz? Reply with quote

I'm looking to buy a flugel mainly for jazz, I'm currently looking at a few different flugels. The Yamaha YFH 6310Z, maybe some Couesnon flugel I don't have any specific model in mind, and the Kanstul 1525, but that's unlikely as I'm trying to stay in-between $1000-$2000, but ideally more around $1000. I'm open to any other ideas for a flugel too but I probably won't get something new so I can save money.
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giakara
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want a dark flugel sound with good quality and easy blow cherch for a vintage used Yamaha 631.

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RussellDDixon
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I second the above Motion ... a used Yamaha 631 ... looks beautiful and plays beautiful ... just ask Chuck Mangione.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any used Yamaha is a safe bet and might be approached for what you want to spend. I prefer the 631 but the older silver 731 is fine. For some reason I don't prefer the 6310Z. Sounds more trumpety when I play it, though other players make it sound just fine. For a good and perfectly acceptable tone pair it with a stock Yamaha mouthpiece. If you want wicked dark, try the Reeves HF cup.
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darksmoke
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I may add, I believe a large slice of players around the 40s-60s played on French Couesnons (perhaps a tradition started a decade previously) and it became the sort of standard flugel for jazz at the time. You still see them being played today occasionally if you look around some. I am unsure how that company modeled theirs or what specific model the older players would use however. You can do a little research if you think it would interest you. The other (major) French flugel is the Courtouis. These both should be well within your price range and you should be able to get a good one for around $800-1100. Happy hunting.
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theslawdawg
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couesnon.
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blbaumgarn
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 9:36 pm    Post subject: What kind of flugelhorn for jazz? Reply with quote

Let's see, a giakara, a Russel Dixon and a Mangione. Sounds like a slam dunk to me. I have spent very limited time trying a used 631, but pretty silky
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't Shorty Rogers play Couesnon? His was a distinctive sound.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couesnon from what I can tell set the standard for a particular flugel sound that many favor these days. I've played a few that had a beautiful sound. But these horns also have issues and vary a lot which makes buying one a crap shoot. Better to buy one of the modern horns that have been modeled after the Couesnon.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What cheiden said. I play a Couesnon copy from K&H and think it’s easier to control intonation than on the originals from the 1950/60s. That said mine is from 1989 and I KNOW that modern horns are even better. The B&S FBX is just great.
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PM me. I have something recommended at a very good price in mint condition.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've liked many of the Yamaha models and also the Kanstuls.
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Dkjcliff
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll also put in a plug for Yamaha flugels. I recently unearthed my 635T that had been in storage for quite a while. After I cleaned it up, I was amazed at how well it played and sounded. Very mellow and rich, and great intonation throughout. I realized I never really appreciated this horn for how good it is, partially cause when I was playing it a lot back in high school and college I had a lot of embouchure problems, which I'm now correcting. The 635T wasn't in production all that long so it can be harder to find. But if you have a chance to try one, I'd highly recommend it.
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a little known choice from Flip Oakes. His Champion flugelhorn is very good for about your price.





Go to: www.flipokes.com for pricing and more info.
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dupac
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carol Brass 👍
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Stan Harrison
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think any Flugel is good for Jazz Depends on what sound you prefer from a Flugel. Mangione switched from a Yamaha to a Copper Calicchio a long time ago. I've had a Benge 3fl, a Kanstul 1525, a Harrelson summit flugel, a Calicchio Copper, and now a Brasspire 933 2b which is surprisingly good. It has a more powerful sound than the others due to its heavy Design. but if you play it lightly it can be sweet. However I would recommend a Kanstul 1525 to anyone.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny thing, I don’t like the 1525. Very good playability but not my sound, too much trumpet in there. Not very fluffy rather focused and powerful.
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stan Harrison wrote:
I think any Flugel is good for Jazz Depends on what sound you prefer from a Flugel.

While all the replies have been helpful, this is the best answer so far. It reminds us that what comes out of the flugelhorn is primarily what you put in it.

In your $1000-$2000 price range, you have a lot of options.

On the inexpensive end, a new ACB Doubler, Dillon Music, or Allora Flugelhorn are all reasonable starter horns (if that's your goal).

A new or used Carol Brass, Jupiter 1100R, Getzen Eterna are all within your budget, and all good horns.

The used Yamaha 631/731 is a classic, and among the most popular choice out there.

Many other good choices out there, including a used Bach 183, a used Conn V1, and others.

I tried a Couesnon a few times. It may have "the sound", but it played very out of tune for me. Maybe it was my inexperience with the horn. But I wouldn't buy one, unless I knew I could play it in tune.

Other characteristics to consider are smaller vs larger bore, small vs larger bell, top sprung vs bottom sprung valves, etc. When I was looking to replace my Getzen flugelhorn, these questions were important to me. I wanted a smaller bore, smaller bell, top sprung, and tight wrap. I couldn't get a horn with all of these characteristics. I ended up with a 1969 Olds L-12 flugelhorn.

Mike
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brassnose wrote:
Funny thing, I don’t like the 1525. Very good playability but not my sound, too much trumpet in there. Not very fluffy rather focused and powerful.


Not that it matters much now, but the 1525 needs two changes to reach its original design potential. It needs a French taper tuning bit. The sound and playing characteristics change dramatically for the better with this modification. It also needs, IMO, a Flip Oakes Extreme flugelhorn mouthpiece. With these two things, no one will ever complain that the 1525 is trumpety.

You can still get the FO mouthpiece to fit any flugelhorn taper. The tuning bit would have to be fabricated by MK or some such company.
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theslawdawg wrote:
Couesnon.

I see one in the Marketplace that has been refurbished...only $4200...oops, just went up to $4300. The guy must think it's better than a Monette or something.
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