• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

unstable note release



 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> The Balanced Embouchure
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
supercow216
Regular Member


Joined: 02 Nov 2018
Posts: 42
Location: France

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:55 am    Post subject: unstable note release Reply with quote

Hi Jeff and everyone,

I have been practicing BE for over a year now and get very encouraging results. I mostly do RO, then TOL then Slur on a daily basis. Occasionally I do RI only at the end of practice.

My teacher complemented on my very smooth slurring and intonation. Playing simple tunes up to high C is quite ok now.

Recently, I am studying Concert Etude, he noticed that my note release is unstable. Usually a note starts out flat then get in tune after half a second. For such fast pieces, it sticks out (for my teacher's ear of course).

He suggests long tones. But I think it is because of the "balanced state" is not established fast enough after note release.

Can you suggest which exercise should I focus on to help with this issue?

Thank you,
_________________
Oink, oink.

I am still learning!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Seymor B Fudd
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 950
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: unstable note release Reply with quote

supercow216 wrote:
Hi Jeff and everyone,

I have been practicing BE for over a year now and get very encouraging results. I mostly do RO, then TOL then Slur on a daily basis. Occasionally I do RI only at the end of practice.

My teacher complemented on my very smooth slurring and intonation. Playing simple tunes up to high C is quite ok now.

Recently, I am studying Concert Etude, he noticed that my note release is unstable. Usually a note starts out flat then get in tune after half a second. For such fast pieces, it sticks out (for my teacher's ear of course).

He suggests long tones. But I think it is because of the "balanced state" is not established fast enough after note release.

Can you suggest which exercise should I focus on to help with this issue?

Thank you,


May I be so impolite and ask: you seem to have left out the RI:s. Why?? The RO:s are very beneficial but only using them might, in my humble opinion, tend to loosen up the whole system. After all the essence of the BE is .....Balanced Embouchure
Personally I´ve found that the RI:s, admittedly quite strenuous, provide a very distinct attack - and the combination with the RO:s, TOL etc have, at least in my case resulted in very crisp, clear attacks, also enhancing my ability to play softly. With minimal pressure.
When I began the BE about 5(?) years ago my lips had a hard time getting accustomed to the RI:s whereas the RO:s didn´t present any problems at all. Took me a long time to mobilize the zest to do the RI:s properly; today I can do RI 1,2 3 rather consecutively within say half an hour. But you gotta be stubborn; 2-3 days off and..... Mean old man look!
And please don´t forget compressing your lips instead of stretching them, a smiling embouchure doesn´t work. Valid also when doling the RO:s.
The part of your lips directly below your nose should be concentrated upon. RO:s can be done rather "flabby" but shouldn´t. In my opinion that is. Made quite a difference when I noticed that.

Amendment: Concerning the RI:s I started with G top of staff - now my point of departure is High C, often E(b). In order to keep up with that I must repeat every day......
_________________
Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Schilke 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Getzen Eterna Eb /M V 1 1/2 C/Schilke 14B
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1973) Selmer 2 D


Last edited by Seymor B Fudd on Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:26 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wilder
Regular Member


Joined: 27 Jun 2020
Posts: 22
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do what your teacher tells you. jw
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
supercow216
Regular Member


Joined: 02 Nov 2018
Posts: 42
Location: France

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:31 pm    Post subject: Re: unstable note release Reply with quote

Seymor B Fudd wrote:
supercow216 wrote:
Hi Jeff and everyone,

I have been practicing BE for over a year now and get very encouraging results. I mostly do RO, then TOL then Slur on a daily basis. Occasionally I do RI only at the end of practice.

My teacher complemented on my very smooth slurring and intonation. Playing simple tunes up to high C is quite ok now.

Recently, I am studying Concert Etude, he noticed that my note release is unstable. Usually a note starts out flat then get in tune after half a second. For such fast pieces, it sticks out (for my teacher's ear of course).

He suggests long tones. But I think it is because of the "balanced state" is not established fast enough after note release.

Can you suggest which exercise should I focus on to help with this issue?

Thank you,


May I be so impolite and ask: you seem to have left out the RI:s. Why?? The RO:s are very beneficial but only using them might, in my humble opinion, tend to loosen up the whole system. After all the essence of the BE is .....Balanced Embouchure
Personally I´ve found that the RI:s, admittedly quite strenuous, provide a very distinct attack - and the combination with the RO:s, TOL etc have, at least in my case resulted in very crisp, clear attacks, also enhancing my ability to play softly. With minimal pressure.
When I began the BE about 5(?) years ago my lips had a hard time getting accustomed to the RI:s whereas the RO:s didn´t present any problems at all. Took me a long time to mobilize the zest to do the RI:s properly; today I can do RI 1,2 3 rather consecutively within say half an hour. But you gotta be stubborn; 2-3 days off and..... Mean old man look!
And please don´t forget compressing your lips instead of stretching them, a smiling embouchure doesn´t work. Valid also when doling the RO:s.
The part of your lips directly below your nose should be concentrated upon. RO:s can be done rather "flabby" but shouldn´t. In my opinion that is. Made quite a difference when I noticed that.


Thanks for your insights.

Indeed, RI is quite strenuous. Usually I don't do it unless my throat is "open" after thoroughly warmed up, else my lips will suffer.
Also, I normally don't compress my lips together with my jaw (it blocks my throat somehow) but curling in the lips is enough to create a high G on the trumpet. I can do squeak with compressed lips quite ok though.

I surely agree more long tone is always a way to make most things better.
_________________
Oink, oink.

I am still learning!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Seymor B Fudd
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 950
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:44 am    Post subject: Re: unstable note release Reply with quote

[quote="supercow216"][quote="Seymor B Fudd"]
supercow216 wrote:
Hi Jeff and everyone,

..............................................................................................................!

Thanks for your insights.

Indeed, RI is quite strenuous. Usually I don't do it unless my throat is "open" after thoroughly warmed up, else my lips will suffer.
Also, I normally don't compress my lips together with my jaw (it blocks my throat somehow) but curling in the lips is enough to create a high G on the trumpet. I can do squeak with compressed lips quite ok though.

I surely agree more long tone is always a way to make most things better.


I see (=suffering lips)- I had the same problem so I figured out I had to prepare my lips more prior to the BE - found the solution here on the TH - the Laurie Frink Integrated warm up studies ( https://daveballou.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/AnIntegratedWarmup.pdf ). Normally my lips reach a state where I can switch to BE after the first study.
Then I begin with the TOL (C below staff to G top off staff), Quavers slow quavers fast, semiquaver double tongue, semiquavers triple tongue; having done that RO 1 2 3; Then RI 1 2 3;
Works for me but again chaqun a son Gout!
ps I do not mean compressing by the jaw - lips only!
_________________
Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Schilke 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Getzen Eterna Eb /M V 1 1/2 C/Schilke 14B
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1973) Selmer 2 D
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trumpetteacher1
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 3149
Location: Garland, Texas

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: unstable note release Reply with quote

supercow216 wrote:
Recently, I am studying Concert Etude, he noticed that my note release is unstable. Usually a note starts out flat then get in tune after half a second. For such fast pieces, it sticks out (for my teacher's ear of course).


Sorry, I don't understand your issue as described. Can you clarify further?

Jeff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
supercow216
Regular Member


Joined: 02 Nov 2018
Posts: 42
Location: France

PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:24 am    Post subject: Re: unstable note release Reply with quote

trumpetteacher1 wrote:
supercow216 wrote:
Recently, I am studying Concert Etude, he noticed that my note release is unstable. Usually a note starts out flat then get in tune after half a second. For such fast pieces, it sticks out (for my teacher's ear of course).


Sorry, I don't understand your issue as described. Can you clarify further?

Jeff


Hi Jeff,

My problem is with release a note at middle register (from G to C, typically A). The lower and (not much) higher register is fine.

When I start a note, I noticed my lips move a bit to search for the balanced state with the airflow (sometimes mini air pocket, sometimes not).
While they move, the pitch changes. The "balance time" is short but noticeable.

With my original "monkey" embouchure, note release was not an issue but playing high is quite painful.

P.S: I was doing long tones and some Caruli these days, it get slightly better. The A is quite insecure. I wonder if it is mental.
_________________
Oink, oink.

I am still learning!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trumpetteacher1
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 3149
Location: Garland, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, you are talking about a note attack (the start of a note), and not a note release (the end of a note).

You are finding that attacks are insecure in a specific part of the register, correct?

This is actually a common issue as balance gets sorted out, especially if you are transitioning out of a stretch embouchure. It usually goes away with more experience over time (page 149).

To give more specific advice, I would have to hear and see a video. Send one to me if you want. Otherwise, make sure that you are tonguing on the top lip. That often resolves insecure attacks.

Jeff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> The Balanced Embouchure All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group