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ltbrown
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Joined: 11 Sep 2012
Posts: 28
Location: United States
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 Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:26 am Post subject: Specialty horn? |
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Hey trumpeters! There are so many options for trumpets out there and lots stay within the basic style and build of what we all know and expect. What I am wondering is, what would people want to see on the market as some specialty horn? Difference in style, sound concept, key, bore size that doesn't exist yet, and so on.. ?
Would love to hear what people might want to see out there as an option.
Feel free to post away with all your trumpet thoughts!  |
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dstpt
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 1286
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Specialty horn? |
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| ltbrown wrote: | Hey trumpeters! There are so many options for trumpets out there and lots stay within the basic style and build of what we all know and expect. What I am wondering is, what would people want to see on the market as some specialty horn? Difference in style, sound concept, key, bore size that doesn't exist yet, and so on.. ?
Would love to hear what people might want to see out there as an option.
Feel free to post away with all your trumpet thoughts! |
I haven't seen any discussion about the Jerome Wiss' trumpets in awhile. Apparently, he has revamped it somewhat in June of this year from his original September 2016 build...
http://jeromewiss.com/en/fabrication-en/bb-trumpet-mod-916/
http://jeromewiss.com/en/fabrication-en/bb-trumpet-6-20/
I just pulled these up and have not yet looked for what the differences may be. If you want different, his definitely is. I would really like to play one some day. |
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deleted_user_687c31b
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Joined: 03 Apr 1996
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:32 am Post subject: Re: Specialty horn? |
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| ltbrown wrote: | | What I am wondering is, what would people want to see on the market as some specialty horn? Difference in style, sound concept, key, bore size that doesn't exist yet, and so on.. ? |
Well if I'm honest...the specialty horn I'd really like to get is the one I already own: an Olds Recording. It had some ergonomic (offset valves) and technical innovations (3 valve trigger) that were decades ahead of its time and it looks and sounds amazing. To me it is really the pinnacle of trumpet design and I cannot think of anything I'd change. A while ago I had a small fondness for bass trumpets but I've grown out of that. Trumpets as they are are just that good, sorry.
| ltbrown wrote: | | Feel free to post away with all your trumpet thoughts! |
Sorry for not answering your question, but hey, you gave me permission to do so.  |
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stumac
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 697
Location: Flinders, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Specialty horn? |
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| dstpt wrote: | | ltbrown wrote: | Hey trumpeters! There are so many options for trumpets out there and lots stay within the basic style and build of what we all know and expect. What I am wondering is, what would people want to see on the market as some specialty horn? Difference in style, sound concept, key, bore size that doesn't exist yet, and so on.. ?
Would love to hear what people might want to see out there as an option.
Feel free to post away with all your trumpet thoughts! |
I haven't seen any discussion about the Jerome Wiss' trumpets in awhile. Apparently, he has revamped it somewhat in June of this year from his original September 2016 build...
http://jeromewiss.com/en/fabrication-en/bb-trumpet-mod-916/
http://jeromewiss.com/en/fabrication-en/bb-trumpet-6-20/
I just pulled these up and have not yet looked for what the differences may be. If you want different, his definitely is. I would really like to play one some day. |
Mid June I received my Jerome Wiss 6/20 that I ordered beginning of April last year, unfortunately I have only had about 1/2 hour with it due to recovering from surgery. I think the main difference is the replacement of the variable gap receiver with a standard one, the 9/20 has a conventional shaped bell whereas the 6/20 has a conical bell reminding me of the trumpets of the 16th century.
The horn sounds with the merest amount of air and remains uniform with as much air I can give it. The sound I find difficult to describe, like no other I have played, full, resonant not bright but not like a cornet or flugel.
Regards, Stuart. |
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cheiden
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8914
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure how marketable or even possible but it would be cool to see a horn with quick change from C to Bb, kind of like the early Conn 80A cornet changes from Bb to A.
How about a horn/mouthpiece combination that allowed you to alter the cup of the mouthpiece while playing?
While you're at it, an octave key would be nice.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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dstpt
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 1286
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: Specialty horn? |
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| stumac wrote: | ...Mid June I received my Jerome Wiss 6/20 that I ordered beginning of April last year, unfortunately I have only had about 1/2 hour with it due to recovering from surgery. I think the main difference is the replacement of the variable gap receiver with a standard one, the 9/20 has a conventional shaped bell whereas the 6/20 has a conical bell reminding me of the trumpets of the 16th century.
The horn sounds with the merest amount of air and remains uniform with as much air I can give it. The sound I find difficult to describe, like no other I have played, full, resonant not bright but not like a cornet or flugel.
Regards, Stuart. |
Do you think the 6/20 version sound would match a modern Bach or Yamaha section of players? Or do you think it might have more of an individual character or tonal profile? May we ask how much he charges for one? And was there a promise for an earlier delivery that got delayed due to COVID-19, or is that the standard build timeframe, ~14.5 months? |
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stumac
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 697
Location: Flinders, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| cheiden wrote: | Not sure how marketable or even possible but it would be cool to see a horn with quick change from C to Bb, kind of like the early Conn 80A cornet changes from Bb to A.
How about a horn/mouthpiece combination that allowed you to alter the cup of the mouthpiece while playing?
While you're at it, an octave key would be nice. |
Both have been done before, I have a Bohmire Fulic C trumpet made between WW1 and WW2 with a rotary valve with tuning slide in the middle of the main tuning slide to change to Bb and an advertisement in an 1880s book of popular dance music for cornet for Thompson's patent adjustable cup mouthpiece.
Regards, Stuart. |
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stumac
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 697
Location: Flinders, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Specialty horn? |
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| dstpt wrote: | | stumac wrote: | ...Mid June I received my Jerome Wiss 6/20 that I ordered beginning of April last year, unfortunately I have only had about 1/2 hour with it due to recovering from surgery. I think the main difference is the replacement of the variable gap receiver with a standard one, the 9/20 has a conventional shaped bell whereas the 6/20 has a conical bell reminding me of the trumpets of the 16th century.
The horn sounds with the merest amount of air and remains uniform with as much air I can give it. The sound I find difficult to describe, like no other I have played, full, resonant not bright but not like a cornet or flugel.
Regards, Stuart. |
Do you think the 6/20 version sound would match a modern Bach or Yamaha section of players? Or do you think it might have more of an individual character or tonal profile? May we ask how much he charges for one? And was there a promise for an earlier delivery that got delayed due to COVID-19, or is that the standard build timeframe, ~14.5 months? |
The 6/20 has an unusual sound I feel would not blend well with standard horns due to its bell shape, the 9/16 had a conventional bell and would.
Ordered in April, initial delivery was 4th trimester last year but Jerome had several other instruments to complete first and the trumpets were not started until Febuary, he is a one man shop and makes all the components himself.
Total cost including shipping to Australia and 1400 euro for Sterling silver bell was 5600 euro.
Regards, Stuart. |
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deleted_user_687c31b
New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996
Posts: 0
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| By the way ltbrown, you may like Taylor Trumpets. Never played one, don't know how they sound, but they sure look 'special'. |
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Wrms
Veteran Member
Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 129
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:41 am Post subject: |
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A side action rotary valve cornet (Eb or Bb) would be cool, or a circular bell up cornet design? 
MM
_________________
A bunch of trumpets
and
A bunch of cornets |
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delano
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:03 am Post subject: |
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This is a clip of my trumpet (finished at the end of Mai), a real specialty trumpet with a great full (dark?) sound and great looks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAAUvAzXTo8 |
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scottfsmith
Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2015
Posts: 474
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:16 am Post subject: |
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Here is my wild idea.. perhaps a bit too out there..
First consider this chart of historical evolution of different types of brass instruments:
Old valveless version ---> New valved version
-------------------------------------------------
Baroque trumpet ---> modern trumpet
Natural horn ---> modern French Horn
Post horn ---> modern cornet
Bugle (of 19c) ---> keyed bugle --> modern flugelhorn
OK now how about the cornett(o)??
Cornetto --> nothing???
It would definitely be a specialty horn to make a valved version of a cornetto-type bore (also needing some bore altering to make a cylindrical stretch at the valves), but it could be interesting for certain kinds of music... cool kinds of Jazz for example, also better in the higher range like a picc. I tried sticking a curled piece of acetate in my picc bell to approximate the cornetto "bell" and it made a sound a lot like a cornetto.
A somewhat less wild idea is to make a mute trumpet: design a trumpet from the ground up to only work with a certain collection of mutes designed as part of the trumpet. Basically don't put a bell on it, instead just screw on various mute attachments. A lot of the intonation issues of mutes could be solved and some new funky types of mutes would be possible.
Re: Bb/C change horns I have played several such horns and that is too much of a pitch difference to work well. In a pinch maybe but not beyond that.
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Thane Standard Large Bb / Monette Unity B6-7M mpc
Lots of vintage trumpets and mouthpieces |
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Wrms
Veteran Member
Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 129
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Ooooh, do this!
MM
| scottfsmith wrote: | Here is my wild idea.. perhaps a bit too out there..
First consider this chart of historical evolution of different types of brass instruments:
Old valveless version ---> New valved version
-------------------------------------------------
Baroque trumpet ---> modern trumpet
Natural horn ---> modern French Horn
Post horn ---> modern cornet
Bugle (of 19c) ---> keyed bugle --> modern flugelhorn
OK now how about the cornett(o)??
Cornetto --> nothing???
It would definitely be a specialty horn to make a valved version of a cornetto-type bore (also needing some bore altering to make a cylindrical stretch at the valves), but it could be interesting for certain kinds of music... cool kinds of Jazz for example, also better in the higher range like a picc. I tried sticking a curled piece of acetate in my picc bell to approximate the cornetto "bell" and it made a sound a lot like a cornetto.
A somewhat less wild idea is to make a mute trumpet: design a trumpet from the ground up to only work with a certain collection of mutes designed as part of the trumpet. Basically don't put a bell on it, instead just screw on various mute attachments. A lot of the intonation issues of mutes could be solved and some new funky types of mutes would be possible.
Re: Bb/C change horns I have played several such horns and that is too much of a pitch difference to work well. In a pinch maybe but not beyond that. |
_________________
A bunch of trumpets
and
A bunch of cornets |
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nltrumpet
Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2019
Posts: 206
Location: Washington DC
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| cheiden wrote: | | Not sure how marketable or even possible but it would be cool to see a horn with quick change from C to Bb, kind of like the early Conn 80A cornet changes from Bb to A. |
Don’t know if I’d call it “quick” (or even if the horn is very good) but Yamaha makes the 4335 C trumpet that also comes with Bb slides. |
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deleted_user_687c31b
New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996
Posts: 0
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:58 am Post subject: |
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Credit where credit's due, that guy knows how to make an entrance...that music...wow. |
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cheiden
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8914
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| stumac wrote: | | cheiden wrote: | Not sure how marketable or even possible but it would be cool to see a horn with quick change from C to Bb, kind of like the early Conn 80A cornet changes from Bb to A.
How about a horn/mouthpiece combination that allowed you to alter the cup of the mouthpiece while playing?
While you're at it, an octave key would be nice. |
Both have been done before, I have a Bohmire Fulic C trumpet made between WW1 and WW2 with a rotary valve with tuning slide in the middle of the main tuning slide to change to Bb and an advertisement in an 1880s book of popular dance music for cornet for Thompson's patent adjustable cup mouthpiece.
Regards, Stuart. |
I know the Bb/C has been done but from what I've read it wasn't done well enough to have caught on.
And I know adjustable cups exist but I've never seen one that could be changed real-time while playing.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Jaw04
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Posts: 900
Location: Bay Area, California
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| I think it would be cool if some manufacturers explored making modern versions of the old school pea shooters with a small bell and smaller bores. They might come up with some cool horns. Just because most modern trumpets blow pretty open and broad. |
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