Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:43 pm Post subject: Doc and Freddie Hubbard
In terms of influences, it seems Doc at some point admired Freddie's playing and worked to achieve cascade running lines and patterns pioneered by Hubbard in the 60's.
There is a '69 - '72 recording of Doc on a rousing rock number not found on YT, now just an old cassette from unknown source. There is Fender Guitar out front, and a rapid tempo change in the middle..the solo work is fairly similar to..
@ 3:20 here :
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5860 Location: New Albany, Indiana
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Doc and Freddie Hubbard
rothman wrote:
In terms of influences, it seems Doc at some point admired Freddie's playing and worked to achieve cascade running lines and patterns pioneered by Hubbard in the 60's.
There is a '69 - '72 recording of Doc on a rousing rock number not found on YT, now just an old cassette from unknown source. There is Fender Guitar out front, and a rapid tempo change in the middle..the solo work is fairly similar to..
@ 3:20 here :
This recording is Freddie, not Doc. _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Doc and Freddie Hubbard
PH wrote:
rothman wrote:
In terms of influences, it seems Doc at some point admired Freddie's playing and worked to achieve cascade running lines and patterns pioneered by Hubbard in the 60's.
There is a '69 - '72 recording of Doc on a rousing rock number not found on YT, now just an old cassette from unknown source. There is Fender Guitar out front, and a rapid tempo change in the middle..the solo work is fairly similar to..
@ 3:20 here :
That is interesting, yet Doc displayed a standout ability of creating more of the longer fluid phrases, with smooth weaving in and out of lower and middle registers at rapid clip, which were the hallmark of Freddie.
He just couldnāt do it to the high degree Freddie did but then Iāll bet Freddie didnāt read much either?? I donāt know. Doc was more technically oriented although Hubbard was a clean machine. Doc could do about anything and be very good at it all maybe Freddie was too but Iāve only heard him do jazz and that shows.
Rod
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9031 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:40 pm Post subject:
I really don't hear any analogous "cascade running lines". Could somebody provide timings that illustrate this? Thanks. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
When it happened I can't say, but sometime during the late sixties he showed he was adept at extending, connecting phrases, often in double time, to have a more fluid style.
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9031 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:55 pm Post subject:
Thank you, but how do the two compare? Also, are you sure that Steve Allen video doesn't predate the link to Doc? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
I've never heard any real similarities in their playing. I've always thought that Freddie was the best pure jazz trumpeter I've ever heard live. He could do anything on the horn in his prime. I heard him in 82 and early 86 before he injured his lip. He was incredible.
I was at a clinic that Rolf Smedvig gave and he talked about Freddie quite a bit. He really admired Freddie.
Doc is Doc. Amazing chops and technique. It's been well documented that Doc had his "jazz solos" written out for him. Arnie Lawrence told me that and Tony Scodwell confirmed in another post that was the case. That said you still have to be a hell of a player to play them.
Apples and Oranges I guess. I love the way they both play.
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 754 Location: Cambridge, MA
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:42 pm Post subject:
I've listened a lot to all of the great trumpeters. When I was starting 9th grade, I hadn't really heard any jazz at all, and I walked into the bandroom to store my horn. The band director (who I had just met and turned out to be one of the most important mentors I ever had) was playing a record on the stereo. It was the just released 'MF Horn Two' by Maynard. I had never heard anything like that.
I went home and cajoled my mother into buying me a yard sale phonograph. Nobody in my house was that into music, much less jazz. I immediately went out and bought the Maynard album and a couple of weeks later, my mother presented me with an album she had ordered for me from her Columbia House Record club subscription. "I've never heard of him, but it said he was a jazz trumpet player so I thought you might like it," she said, handing me a brand spanking new copy of Freddie Hubbard's 'First Light' album.
My world was changing fast. My head exploded when I heard Freddie play. Since then, as I've said, I've listened to all the players, gone through phases, and appreciate them all - a lot. But if I had to pick a few desert island discs, there's definitely be a Maynard and a Freddie on the list. And if you haven't heard 'First Light', download, purchase, or steal it as soon as you can. You won't be sorry.
C'mon man.....Ugestsu ESPECIALLY Freddie's playing is CRAP (tongue firmly in cheek!!!!!)
Yeah, it never ends with Freddie, I mean, listen to Blues and the Abstract Truth by Oliver Nelson. Freddie's like 20 years old on that record!!!! And all of those Blakey albums with him and Wayne and Curtis fuller in the front line? Then his Atlantics and the CTI stuff! Those CTI albums are poo pooed by purists, but man, Red Clay and Get Your Soul Together and the aleady lauded First Light....whew some of the best stuff out there man. I only WISH that heard anything today that engaged me like that stuff does....
If it makes you feel better, Freddie is 22 (almost 23) on Blues And The Abstract Truth. I think his first record is "Open Sesame", recorded in 1960. My favorite Freddie Hubbard recordings are Bill Evans "Interplay", Wayne Shorter "Speak No Evil", Herbie Hancock "Empyrean Isles", and Art Blakey "Mosaic". "Freddie Hubbard Live in Europe 1969" is another good one, as is V.S.O.P.
I think the craziest thing is that Freddie Hubbard and Booker Little played the section parts on Coltrane's "Africa/Brass". Too bad there aren't any trumpet solos on that album, but Coltrane's playing is unreal. One can only imagine the sessions at the Vanguard and Five Spot with Coltrane, Hubbard, and Little that never got onto tape.
Joined: 06 Jan 2010 Posts: 543 Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:35 am Post subject:
Hmm, I'm not so sure about a Doc - Freddie connection in terms of influence. Maybe they admired each other, that would be nice.
Freddie's style was pretty well established in his early 20's, another early record to check out is "Ready For Freddie." The idea that Doc influenced him is pretty far-fetched. Freddie's early style especially was much more Miles Davis/Lee Morgan/Clifford Brown influenced.
That aside, I'd be hard pressed to find two more different jazz trumpeters. Not sure what you're really hearing to connect them, other than a fast tempo and a saturated, chorused recorded trumpet sound (popular in the CTI-era). Their articulation is completely different. Their concepts for improvising are virtually opposite. _________________ New Album "ensemble | in situ" on Bandcamp
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