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Vintage King Liberty springs



 
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Surcouf
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Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 26
Location: Up North

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:47 am    Post subject: Vintage King Liberty springs Reply with quote

I have been shopping around for valve springs for my c. 1936 King Liberty, and I know quite a few members here own similar horns.

Any recommendations on good replacement springs? The springs in my Liberty are copper-colored and taper from bottom to top. I have no idea if they are original or even correct for this horn (given the age of the horn I can't assume either). All help is appreciated!

I am planning to buy a felt/cork kit for it off eBay, but any recommendations on another (better?) source for those parts is also appreciated.
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Dayton
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Joined: 24 Mar 2013
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Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charlie Melk (Charlie's Brass Works) could probably answer your question. He restored my 1920s King Liberty a few months ago, and replaced the springs, corks, felts, etc.

Good luck!
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James Becker
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Joined: 02 Sep 2005
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Location: Littleton, MA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Top internal sprung King springs from Allied Supply part number A374 are a perfect match and we have them in stock.
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James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US
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Surcouf
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Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 26
Location: Up North

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info! (I PM'd you James).

The only wrinkle is that my Liberty has bottom sprung valves, so I don't know if that makes a difference in terms of the correct spring type. I noticed that most (all?) 1920s King Liberty trumpets seem to be top sprung.

Looks like Charlie Melk has quite a backlog of restoration work. At some point I do want to have a restoration done on a couple horns I own though.
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Dayton
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Joined: 24 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Looks like Charlie Melk has quite a backlog of restoration work. At some point I do want to have a restoration done on a couple horns I own though.


Charlie does great work. He's expertly restored several horns for me. But worth noting that Jim Becker does equally fine work, and you can schedule with him online via the Osmun Music website, which is VERY convenient.
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James Becker
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Location: Littleton, MA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We also stock bottom sprung springs from Allied, A370 for Conn and A371 will fit what A370 does not.

Contact Tim Cote at sales@osmun.com or phone 978-823-0580 to purchase a set of three.
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James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US
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Surcouf
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Location: Up North

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that! I'll get in touch.
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Crazy Finn
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Joined: 27 Dec 2001
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Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surcouf wrote:
Thanks for the info! (I PM'd you James).

The only wrinkle is that my Liberty has bottom sprung valves, so I don't know if that makes a difference in terms of the correct spring type. I noticed that most (all?) 1920s King Liberty trumpets seem to be top sprung.

Looks like Charlie Melk has quite a backlog of restoration work. At some point I do want to have a restoration done on a couple horns I own though.

That's bizarre. I have played and held a few that might be from the 40's with the art-deco styling and they had top sprung valves like mine from the 20's.
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Surcouf
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Joined: 24 Feb 2019
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Location: Up North

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazy Finn wrote:
That's bizarre. I have played and held a few that might be from the 40's with the art-deco styling and they had top sprung valves like mine from the 20's.


I just re-checked the serial number references and I guess I was a year or two off - this horn would fall in the 1930-1935 block.

It is serial # 154,xxx, an eBay find I bought a year ago. Matte silver finish with brushed silver accents, a gold inner bell and the art deco brace. Original case in decent shape but missing handle. Original lyre, same finish as horn. All of the serialized parts (valves, slides, caps) match the serial on the valve block, so I am guessing this is not a modified horn.

It's my first vintage King and I did quite a bit of research before buying (acknowledging, however, that eBay is a lottery). I initially wanted one of the 1920s horns with the )( brace but then fell in love with the angular art deco braced models from the 1930s with their outrageous King logos on the bell. Couldn't afford a Silver Tone but this one is very pretty and while the valves are somewhat worn it still plays well.

It is mostly dent-free but does have a couple less-than-perfect re-soldering repairs, hopefully I can get an experienced tech to fix those for me someday when I take it in for a service. It's nice enough that I don't think it needs restoration, just cleaning and a few minor repairs.
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Surcouf
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Joined: 24 Feb 2019
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Location: Up North

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just noticed a horn that is very similar to mine currently for sale, and it also appears to be bottom sprung:

https://reverb.com/item/10667905-king-hn-white-liberty-1930-s-satin-silver-gold

In fact, every Liberty with the style of brace like the one above appears to be bottom sprung. If you look on the hnwhite.com's selection of vintage King trumpets for sale, it seems that all the 1920s Liberty trumpets were top sprung. Liberty No. 2 and 2B trumpets from the 1930s through the late 1940s were bottom sprung - after which they seem to have reverted to a top sprung design? Interesting.
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Crazy Finn
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Joined: 27 Dec 2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huh. Bizarre. Nothing wrong with bottom springs, but the 20's design was pretty modern, if I recall. Strange that they'd switch.

I went to look for it, but it must be in some random case, so I'm relying on my memory.

On the other hand, Conn did nothing BUT tinker around with valve designs. None were really bad, but I didn't get the ones with the big corks and my 1950 Constellation has kinda odd valves.
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Surcouf
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Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 26
Location: Up North

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never seen any documentation on this from King, so it does make me curious.

Pure speculation - the change to bottom sprung valves in the Liberty happens right at the advent of the Great Depression, and the return to top sprung valves happens after the end of WWII. Could it have been a Depression-era cost-saving measure of some kind?


Last edited by Surcouf on Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My King Liberty is 49,xxx. It has top-sprung valves.
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