Mouthpiece advice

[mikepodorski]

Hopefully this makes sense. I'm about 6 weeks returning to trumpet after about a 20 year break. I've run into a bit of a snag and I may have stumbled onto the answer, but would love some advice.

My range and tone are solid from F to high C is pretty solid (when I can get that high). Low C is awful, really up to E. Below low c isn't too bad. There is a definite break around C that I just can't manage. I'm usually quite flat when the "break" goes low. As I get tired, I struggle to keep a steady tone at all and can't really make much of a sound when buzzing just the mouthpiece in that range.

I currently have a Bach 7c that I played way back when. I bought a cheap 7c off Amazon to have at work to do some extra mouthpiece buzzing. The cup diameter is bigger on the knock-off, maybe by 1/8". Tonight I decided to grab the cheapie and give it a try. The "break" was almost gone, plus I didn't feel as restricted and the tone improved throughout. I did lose some range, but my chops were pretty much done for the night.

I was wondering if my lips don't have enough room to vibrate properly in the 7c? Plus, as my lips swell, I would have more room to compensate?

Would it be in my best interest to try a good 3c or 5c? The intonation on the cheapie isn't that good (or it could be me).

Thanks in advance!

[nltrumpet]

A 5C or 3C will help the lower tones a bit, though I can’t say it will solve any underlying issues.

[jondrowjf@gmail.com]

A used name brand 3 C or 5 C may be a good choice for you. You may be overdoing it, does take awhile to get your embrouchre and breathing back. If you are like the rest of us, your body is not the same as twenty years ago. So what work then, may not work now. Be patient with yourself and don't rush it. Have you tried limiting your practice to not more than 15 minutes at a time, several times a day? My recommendation is to get a lesson and ask the instructor for a good practice routine. Have you considered taking a lesson on Skype?
Is the trumpet you are playing, the one you played previously? Have you given your horn and mouthpiece a through cleaning lately?
_________________
Jupiter 520 M shepherds crook cornet
Yamaha 2300 cornet
King 603 cornet
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold short shank mouthpiece
Getzen 4 B short shank mouthpiece
Vincent Bach 5 B short shank mouthpiece

[jake50]

[Tpt_Guy]

What are you practicing and how much? How much time do you spend in the middle and upper registers vs the lower register?

I ask because I recently had a breakthrough where my upper range extended up to G above High C and if I really pushed it, I could ascend to Double High C on a good day. In my excitement, I overdid it and found:

My lower register had thinned out.
Low B to bottom line E were very unstable (and I couldn't buzz then on the mouthpiece).
Below Low B sounded dull and tubby, though I could play them.
My chops became swollen causing my mouthpiece (a 1-1/2C at the time) to feel small.

I had to go back and rework my fundamentals to repair the damage.

This is not to say that a mouthpiece couldn't help. It might. Just make sure your basics as a player are in.
_________________
-Tom Hall-

"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee

[deleted_user_687c31b]

From what you describe, it doen't sound like a different mouthpiece is the answer (yet). You haven't played in 20 years...give it some time. It's easy to get lost in the jungle of mouthpieces and buy tons of them, but finding the right one is a needle in a haystack and even then, it may not fix your current issues. Did you consider consulting a trumpet teacher to help you pinpoint the cause of your issues?

If you're 100% sure your mouthpiece isn't right for you however, then go to a store and try (lots of) different mouthpieces. The Harrelson kit also allows you to do this, but requires a serious monetary investment which you may not want to do unless you're sure you're gonna play the trumpet for the next 20 years.

[Vin DiBona]

In typical comeback player logic, high notes are it.
They aren't. Good sound and control are the important goals.
A mouthpiece is not likely to make much difference right now. You need to take it easy on the range and play for sound.
Can't get a low C out? That's an embouchure issue that can be addressed by playing soft long tones from 2 line G down to the C and below.
Strive for the best, most resonant sound for each note using a steady and free air supply. Don't overblow the notes. Don't gulp air in. Simply think of breathing through your whole face. In other words, a natural breath with no tension in your body.
Get rid of the high notes for now. They will come with proper practice and above all, patience!
As pointed out, do not think of any expensive mouthpiece. (Over $125.00 retail). Play what your have until you are 100% certain you may be better with a different mouthpiece. Also,a bigger mouthpiece is not necessarily better.
If you can find a good teacher, take some lessons!
Beware of YouTube "experts". There are plenty of lousy players there who give some not so hot advice.
If you do go to YouTube, look for guy who can actually demonstrate great sound and technique, like Charlie Porter does.
R. Tomasek

[JeffM729]

For a comeback player, establishing a daily routine is an excellent way to regain your chops. The Adam Routine was a real help for me to get back in the swing of things. There is a section here on the board that is dedicated to Bill Adam. Also taking a lesson or two will speed your progress.

https://www.trumpetworx.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/271430394-Bill-Adams-Daily-Routine.pdf

[mikepodorski]

Thanks for the advice! I know I need to be patient, which is totally not my strong suit. Its good to have a reminder to slow down. This has been very humbling. Nothing like starting something over that I used to be pretty good to knock me down a few (several) pegs.

[harryjamesworstnightmare]

Good old fashion mouthpiece buzzing would be my advice. Get the Thompson Buzzing Book and use the accompaniment sound files. It will take time, follow the instructions to the letter. Play softly, breathe easy, don't over blow. I used this method for my comeback after a 19 year layoff and faced the exact same issues you are having.
_________________
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Getzen Eterna Flugelhorn

[mikepodorski]

Thanks again for all the help!

This topic may not be so much for mouthpieces anymore. Feel free to move if needed.

Just a bit of an update. I did change to a larger mouthpiece, a Bach 1 1/2 c. I looked at the pictures on the Stork website and according to my lip structure, a 17mm mouthpiece was recommended, which seem to fit the description. It didn't fix my low range issues, but it did help with my endurance. I have a pretty large "V" in my top lip, right in the middle of my embouchure, and a fat bottom lip. Any swelling at all would cut off the airflow with the smaller diameter. My range dropped a slight amount at first, but as I have gotten stronger it has recovered and then some. I'm really not trying to increase my range at this point.

The low range issues, and most of my bad playing had/has to do with a loose embouchure (among many other things, lol). Tightening the corners has helped significantly, although I still have a lot of strength to build yet. I have a mouthpiece that I use at work to do about 15 minuets of buzzing exercises at work, which has helped, as well as long tones during practice.

[blbaumgarn]

Don't panic and give up. I couldn't get the lower register to be easy and full like when I was younger and it made me mad. I kind of did the mouthpiece thing, going a little bigger but to no avail. Once you realize how long it has been since you played you will just go back and work on things with a mouthpiece that feels all around good to you. I will come back, but slowly. I improved with the lower register and am somewhere in the middle using a 5b mouthpiece. Hang in there.
_________________
"There are two sides to a trumpeter's personality,
there is one that lives to lay waste to woodwinds and strings, leaving them lie blue and lifeless along a swath of destruction that is a
trumpeter's fury-then there is the dark side!" Irving Bush

[delano]

Asking advice like this is very dangerous. As I see it only that of VinDibona makes sense, forget the others and maybe you have to forget the 1 1/2 C too, probably it’s the wrong escape.

[deleted_user_687c31b]

[delano]

What I meant to say is that advices about which mp to choose here on the internet are in general not a good idea so it might be a good thing to point that out. Then, the OP is now playing for 6 weeks with already ‘a solid high C’ but not a regular low C ???
Switching from a 7C to something big like a 1 1/2C can often give a false notion of tone and easy playing. But if you can’t play a reasonable low C on a 1 1/2 C there is some reason to worry.
Then he has a non branded 7C mp that is 1/8 inch = 3.175 mm bigger than is Bach 7 C. But the difference between the biggest Bach (1) and the smallest (20C) is 2.5 mm!
So I see some reason to take the OP’s remarks with a grain of salt.

[deleted_user_687c31b]

[Bflatman]

This illustrates a common problem in the community and to be honest I dont understand it.

I will exaggerate it in answering. These comment are not aimed at you but at some misguided players. I hope you get something useful from this.

A trumpet player spends 2000 dollars on an instrument and then decides he needs to select the perfect mouthpiece to go with it.

He then does loads of research and asks for advice and deliberates and then discusses and frets and questions his choices and second guesses himself then makes another choice.

Six months later he finally makes his decision and spends the 30 dollars he needs to acquire his choice and then it works ok for a while and then he regrets it and then spends another six months deciding his next mouthpiece choice.

Mouthpieces cost from 10 dollars up. Most can be got for free.

There is no excuse for not owning a dozen different mouthpieces they cost so little and when you own a dozen you dont have to ask a thousand other guys what you should try, you can just open your mouthpiece drawer and try one out.

If mouthpieces cost 1000 dollars each I could understand all the deliberations and worry over which one to spend that 1000 dollars on but the cheapest mouthpieces cost less than a bottle of high class oil.

I got most of mine for free with 20 to 30 dollar instruments off ebay.

With a drawer full of pieces comes a drawer full of choices and you dont have to ask people if a large piece will help you, you can grab one slam it in the receiver and find out.

You can spend 6 months talking or you can spend 6 months doing.

I own 9 mouthpieces and will never need to buy another.

I am playing on a deep 5c right now but I have a deep 1.25 I used to play on and a range that goes all the way to a 10c with different weights.

And with this broad choice comes the ability to modify the tonal response of any instrument I own by fine tuning the mouthpiece used in it.

Learn to play well on any mouthpiece and you open the door to a new world of tone manipulation.

Only being able to play well on one single mouthpiece and no others can turn the piece into a crutch that will lock you into 2 dimensional playing with little control of how you form your tones.

Good players explain that you can modify your tones by mouthpiece choice.

How exactly does this work if you only ever play one mouthpiece and refuse to use any other piece because you cant play well enough on it.

A player who cannot use anything other than a 5c cannot richen his tones with a 1 1/2c. Control of embouchure does allow tonal manipulation it is true but you magnify your options when you can freely choose the mouthpiece.

I sometimes change mouthpiece mid performance if the tone needs modifying and swapping pieces is as easy as putting a mute in.

I recommend spending 50 to 100 dollars on a bunch of different mouthpieces or get yourself a modular set. Or you will spend a year or two chatting about mouthpieces like some players I see.

You need to decide what mouthpiece you can use we cannot and you need to physically play on them or you cannot discover what you play well on.

This is the driver that sends players on safaris. You need to play on a mouthpiece for a while to decide if it is the right piece.
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[shofarguy]

Mike,

It sounds to me like an embouchure/approach issue. I read your symptoms and what comes to mind is something I've observed in other players. That is, they play "at the top of the note."

It's easy to bend notes downward. Some bend more than a full step, but it's much harder to bend notes up. So, some players learn to play up against that hard wall at the top of what is sometimes called the note circle. That's all fine and good in the upper part of the staff, but it carries too much tension to relax into the lower range. The "break" you speak of is when you simply cannot sustain the embouchure tension and you reset in a more relaxed way.

If you play in the center of the note circle instead, you won't have that void and your tone and endurance will improve, as well. So, plan on taking some weeks to learn how to play in the center. Maybe, start with G in the staff. Get a sufficient breath and play the note gently, just letting the air flow out. Bend the note down as far as you can and then relax so it comes back up in pitch. Bend the note up as far as you can and relax back down in pitch. Find the best tone, which will be the most relaxed, settled feeling. That's the note center.

You might want to visit Pops McLaughlin's Trumpet College online. Loads of good stuff there. Look up his eBook called Tension Less Playing and buy that. It will help you get a good foundation for growth.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

[jondrowjf@gmail.com]

Duplicate
_________________
Jupiter 520 M shepherds crook cornet
Yamaha 2300 cornet
King 603 cornet
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold short shank mouthpiece
Getzen 4 B short shank mouthpiece
Vincent Bach 5 B short shank mouthpiece

[jondrowjf@gmail.com]

When is the last time you had the trumpet professional cleaned? Is your primary horn : a student, intermediate or professional trumpet? What is your other horn? I agree with bflatman buy a variety of mouthpiece sizes. My recommendation is to buy a used Bach 5 C megatone trumpet mouthpiece. Denis Wick does carry a 3 C, 4 X Heavytop trumpet mouthpiece but not a 5 C Heavytop mouthpiece.
_________________
Jupiter 520 M shepherds crook cornet
Yamaha 2300 cornet
King 603 cornet
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold short shank mouthpiece
Getzen 4 B short shank mouthpiece
Vincent Bach 5 B short shank mouthpiece