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ghelbig
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 May 2011
Posts: 908
Location: Reno, NV
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 Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:42 am Post subject: Cyber Stalking |
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I won't go on FaceBook because of their data harvesting, and I get really annoyed being cyber-stalked by web sites.
I explicitly set 'do not track me' on my browser, but the next day I get an email telling me that I really should buy that mute I was looking at.
This leaves me with a icky / creepy feeling, and the decision that I'll but it from Dillon instead... |
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SMrtn
Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2014
Posts: 367
Location: Spain
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Seymor B Fudd
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 1472
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:44 am Post subject: Re: Cyber Stalking |
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| ghelbig wrote: | I won't go on FaceBook because of their data harvesting, and I get really annoyed being cyber-stalked by web sites.
I explicitly set 'do not track me' on my browser, but the next day I get an email telling me that I really should buy that mute I was looking at.
This leaves me with a icky / creepy feeling, and the decision that I'll but it from Dillon instead... |
Norton has begun with VPN; so has Firefox. Then you have the TOR web reader - seems to prevent more trackers than the others (as measured by the CCleaner Pro).
And yes this is a nuisance - guided by google or yahoo we end up in a very small rectified universe. Trolling.....
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ghelbig
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 May 2011
Posts: 908
Location: Reno, NV
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:08 am Post subject: Cyber Stalking |
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LOL. At the bottom of that page is a notice that they are performing what their technology claims to block.
A VPN doesn't stop a web site from dropping tracking cookies (fingerprinting) in your browser. And it won't stop a web site from scraping the history out of your browser. FireFox has 'advanced tracking protection' - some sites see this and claim that your browser isn't compatible with their site.
Even this site (trumpetherald) does it to some degree. If you look at something on wwbw.com you will see ads for similar items on this web site. You're being tracked from inside your browser, and you're relying on the web-site's voluntary compliance to your 'no-track' request.
I have heard from the web-site in question. They defended their tactic, and have no intention to stop.
G. |
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khedger
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 754
Location: Cambridge, MA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Cyber Stalking |
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| ghelbig wrote: |
LOL. At the bottom of that page is a notice that they are performing what their technology claims to block.
A VPN doesn't stop a web site from dropping tracking cookies (fingerprinting) in your browser. And it won't stop a web site from scraping the history out of your browser. FireFox has 'advanced tracking protection' - some sites see this and claim that your browser isn't compatible with their site.
Even this site (trumpetherald) does it to some degree. If you look at something on wwbw.com you will see ads for similar items on this web site. You're being tracked from inside your browser, and you're relying on the web-site's voluntary compliance to your 'no-track' request.
I have heard from the web-site in question. They defended their tactic, and have no intention to stop.
G. |
If you're this paranoid then you better figure out how exist without the internet period. Data for marketing isn't just harvested via web browsers. As a matter of fact the majority of data harvesting occurs out on the web on various routers and edge and backbone servers. Companies like S3, AT&T, Akamai and a host of others 'see' most internet traffic and harvest it daily. From there it is analyed, sold, and used for a variety of applications. Go out to Google and do a search for a product you've never used or searched for before. You'll likely start getting 'recommendations' in your YouTube feed for videos about that product within a day or so. It's eerie, but unavoidable. That's the world we live in, like it or not.
keith |
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SMrtn
Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2014
Posts: 367
Location: Spain
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Cyber Stalking |
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| ghelbig wrote: |
LOL. At the bottom of that page is a notice that they are performing what their technology claims to block.
A VPN doesn't stop a web site from dropping tracking cookies (fingerprinting) in your browser. And it won't stop a web site from scraping the history out of your browser. FireFox has 'advanced tracking protection' - some sites see this and claim that your browser isn't compatible with their site.
Even this site (trumpetherald) does it to some degree. If you look at something on wwbw.com you will see ads for similar items on this web site. You're being tracked from inside your browser, and you're relying on the web-site's voluntary compliance to your 'no-track' request.
I have heard from the web-site in question. They defended their tactic, and have no intention to stop.
G. |
I just thought that in conjunction with, which means together with, those products may help alleviate your woes. I guess you need something else entirely. |
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WxJeff
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2002
Posts: 2485
Location: Atlanta GA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:01 am Post subject: Re: Cyber Stalking |
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| khedger wrote: |
If you're this paranoid then you better figure out how exist without the internet period. Data for marketing isn't just harvested via web browsers. As a matter of fact the majority of data harvesting occurs out on the web on various routers and edge and backbone servers. Companies like S3, AT&T, Akamai and a host of others 'see' most internet traffic and harvest it daily. From there it is analyed, sold, and used for a variety of applications. Go out to Google and do a search for a product you've never used or searched for before. You'll likely start getting 'recommendations' in your YouTube feed for videos about that product within a day or so. It's eerie, but unavoidable. That's the world we live in, like it or not.
keith |
This. My oldest son has been educating me about this for some time. Last week his younger brother texted me from a location where his car battery had died to let me know he would be late getting home. Within two hours I had a car battery ad show up in my FB feed. I haven't searched anything automotive in months.
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LaTrompeta
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 May 2015
Posts: 867
Location: West Side, USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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You can't prevent this. You may think you can; you cannot. I am a software developer and once worked for a company which did exactly this. No browser could detect our software or adblockers prevent data going over the wire. I was tasked with implementing GDPR regulations on our software, and it was a joke. It's as if lawmakers and politicians don't actually understand how technologies work!
You have two choices, then. Use the Internet or do not.
Frankly, I don't see what the big deal is. It's as if everybody has got something to hide these days. I don't even agree that privacy is a fundamental right. Do you have the right to go to the store without being seen? Seems like a modern, invented "right" like so many others getting thrown in our faces.
You can try incognito mode, VPN and/or TOR. You might make a dent in the data going out, but do you really know who has what? You probably couldn't even name the small startup which employed me, yet I guarantee you used one of the thousands of popular sites which embeds their software within it.
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khedger
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 754
Location: Cambridge, MA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| LaTrompeta wrote: | You can't prevent this. You may think you can; you cannot. I am a software developer and once worked for a company which did exactly this. No browser could detect our software or adblockers prevent data going over the wire. I was tasked with implementing GDPR regulations on our software, and it was a joke. It's as if lawmakers and politicians don't actually understand how technologies work!
You have two choices, then. Use the Internet or do not.
Frankly, I don't see what the big deal is. It's as if everybody has got something to hide these days. I don't even agree that privacy is a fundamental right. Do you have the right to go to the store without being seen? Seems like a modern, invented "right" like so many others getting thrown in our faces.
You can try incognito mode, VPN and/or TOR. You might make a dent in the data going out, but do you really know who has what? You probably couldn't even name the small startup which employed me, yet I guarantee you used one of the thousands of popular sites which embeds their software within it. |
As usual with technologies, the lawmakers don't have a clue how this stuff works or the potential for its abuse. They have experts come in and testify, and there are probably some technical people on their staffs, but really. Most of our lawmakers don't know how to do much more than send email or talk on their phones and they STILL don't really understand what's going on. There's no way they can be briefed to understand the nuances involved with technology and privacy policy. It's a joke.
keith |
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JohnMcLein
New Member
Joined: 07 May 2020
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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We live in a new world where it is very difficult or impossible to protect your personal electronic space  I have also often thought about the issue of collecting information. This question bothers me. But to protect yourself from this, you need to spend a huge amount of time and effort. Whether it's worth it, I haven't figured out yet. |
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Bflatman
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 720
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| Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:22 am Post subject: |
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For over 100 years companies have been gathering customer names and their buying habits to better allow them to make new contacts and offer products to new customers who might want them.
When telephones became household items companies used information from research to cold call potential customers and offer products to them.
Lists of potential customers changed hands for big bucks and this was not seen as stalking.
Now suddenly this normal and standard practice of gathering customer names and contacts is applied to the internet and it is seen as wrong.
It is normal business practice. If companies are not allowed to seek new customers easily then the price of products will inevitably rise.
I want cheap products.
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khedger
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 754
Location: Cambridge, MA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Bflatman wrote: | For over 100 years companies have been gathering customer names and their buying habits to better allow them to make new contacts and offer products to new customers who might want them.
When telephones became household items companies used information from research to cold call potential customers and offer products to them.
Lists of potential customers changed hands for big bucks and this was not seen as stalking.
Now suddenly this normal and standard practice of gathering customer names and contacts is applied to the internet and it is seen as wrong.
It is normal business practice. If companies are not allowed to seek new customers easily then the price of products will inevitably rise.
I want cheap products. |
Here's a little story for you. Back in the 80s (before the world wide web when the internet was used mainly by universities and software companies) I worked for a large investment bank as a third shift computer operator. These were mainframe computers. The building was virtually abandoned at night except for me and my partner. The only others in the building were at the other end of the hall where another company had a computer room and their third shift worked. At slack times we would often co-mingle with the guys down the hall over a cup of coffee to shoot the sh** as they say. Anyway, a couple of times a week there was a guy that came in to rent time on this company's mainframe. He was a programmer that worked days for a big company in Boston, but had a side hustle going on. His side hustle was collecting customer information (he never told me where he got it) and then selling lists of different types of customer info to who knows who (he wouldn't tell me that either, but you get the drift). He used to bring his programs and data in on 9 track computer tapes and use this company's mainframe, and old IBM system 168 to do this work, then print out these huge lists of info that he took with him. This was in the EARLY 80s......Bflatman is spot on about this....
keith |
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Robert P
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Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 2596
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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None of the "about" info I have on Facebook is correct. My birthday is from the early 1900's, I have some obscure town with a silly name in the wrong state as my hometown.
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ghelbig
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 May 2011
Posts: 908
Location: Reno, NV
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Bflatman wrote: | Now suddenly this normal and standard practice of gathering customer names and contacts is applied to the internet and it is seen as wrong.
It is normal business practice. If companies are not allowed to seek new customers easily then the price of products will inevitably rise.
I want cheap products. |
How would you feel if Best Buy called you at home and asked "I saw you looking at televisions the other day; are you still interested in buying that Sony?"
How would you feel if after buying some 'little blue pills' for your dad that your wife started getting emails from the Mayo Clinic?
It's not the normal practice that I object to. It's the over-collection and misuse of the data that annoys me. The collection is done by the evil, and the associations are done by the clueless.
It's interesting to note that the company known as "The Evil Empire" is one of the most transparent about its collection and usage of data, while the company started with the motto "Do No Evil" is one of the biggest bullies on the internet.
Very few are honest about the data collected. Try surfing in 'incognito mode' - you'll find a number of sites that block you because you're not letting them secretly harvest your data. Try a couple of Google searches in Chrome's incognito mode and the browser crashes.
Normal business practice is one thing. Blind faith in the evil and clueless is another.
Gary. |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| ghelbig wrote: | | It's interesting to note that the company known as "The Evil Empire" is one of the most transparent about its collection and usage of data, while the company started with the motto "Do No Evil" is one of the biggest bullies on the internet. |
Remember the big issue back in the "Evil Empire" days? A serial number in the CPU that could be used to track a user. Whoa! 
We all have our thresholds. Some of us are willing to sacrifice all notions of privacy in the pursuit of cheap products. Some are not.
Back in the glory days that Bflatman refers to merchants tried different ways of collecting private information. Like getting phone numbers or writing down drivers license information at the point of sale.
My threshold being lower than many I refused to participate. I always refused to give my phone number to radio shack, even when the employees harassed me. I refused to get a Hollywood video card when they decided to use the drivers license number as their customer ID.
You be you. If you don't care go ahead and make your life an open book. However, I see it as "play stupid games, win stupid prizes." Having my identity stolen once is more than enough for my lifetime. |
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bamajazzlady
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2011
Posts: 691
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:33 am Post subject: |
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LaTrompeta how can you say privacy is not a right in an era where peoples identities are getting stolen? Everyone has something to hide, don't be reckless as peoples lives have been, do get and are destroyed by identity theft.
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