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Trumpetown Regular Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2020 Posts: 69 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:31 pm Post subject: Names of trumpet notes preference. |
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How do you prefer to name the notes?
Option 1:
Low F#
Low G,
Low B, etc
Middle C
Middle E
Middle G, etc
Upper C? (What is the term here? Upper? Staff?)
Upper E?
High G
High A
High B
High C
Double E
Double G
Double B
Double C
Triple E
Triple G
Triple C
Option 2:
Low F#
Low G,
Low B, etc
Middle C
Middle E
Middle G, etc
Upper C? (Again, what is the term here?)
Upper E?
Upper G?
Upper A?
Upper B?
High C
High E
High G
Double C
Double E
Double G
Triple C
I understand that this stuff isn't set in stone anywhere and that it's all whatever you want. But I'm just wondering which one you prefer.
To me, you don't hit a high G until you hit a high C. But some people say that because there's a G on top of the staff that it's a high G. _________________ Conn SS1 |
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Goby Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Posts: 652
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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I'd designate the bottom octave of the horn as the "low" section. Low F#, Low C, low D, etc.
Notes in the treble clef staff are designated as "middle", i.e. middle C, middle G, etc.
Notes higher than middle C I'd just refer to as "at the top of the staff", i.e. F on top of the staff.
Also notes below high C are "above the staff" i.e. "A above the staff"
Notes above high C are "high", like high C, high D, etc.
high G can also be called double G, and notes above that are "double" as well.
Anything higher can simply be referred to as "above double C" |
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Trumpetown Regular Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2020 Posts: 69 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Goby wrote: | I'd designate the bottom octave of the horn as the "low" section. Low F#, Low C, low D, etc.
Notes in the treble clef staff are designated as "middle", i.e. middle C, middle G, etc.
Notes higher than middle C I'd just refer to as "at the top of the staff", i.e. F on top of the staff.
Also notes below high C are "above the staff" i.e. "A above the staff"
Notes above high C are "high", like high C, high D, etc.
high G can also be called double G, and notes above that are "double" as well.
Anything higher can simply be referred to as "above double C" |
Thank you for the response.
With all instruments (I think), the C below the staff is always middle C. It's unusual to refer to the C in the staff as middle C. _________________ Conn SS1 |
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Goby Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Posts: 652
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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Well, it's right in the middle of the trumpet register. Theres a C below it, and a C above it. Double C doesn't really count since so few people play up there. |
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khedger Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 754 Location: Cambridge, MA
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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When I'm trying to convey information about trumpet notes I tend to do the following:
- I'll refer to notes that fall below the staff like "F# below the staff"
- similarly, notes in the staff like "Bb in (or on) the staff"
- then "high A or C"
- then "F above high C" or "double F"
I don't think this is anything official, but it seems to be an effective way to talk about the notes, at least it's always worked well for me.
keith |
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JoseLindE4 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 791
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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The recently departed Jon Ruff has a nice video about naming conventions that has informed how I communicate. I name notes in relation to their placement relative to the staff (x below the staff, first space f, second line g, a above the staff) or high C (b below high c, f about high C) and double C (b below double c, f above double c). It’s clear and always easily understandable.
There are many standard conventions, but they often conflict — see the scientific pitch notation that is often taught in beginning college theory classes and the various versions of what number is assigned to piano middle c. The theory textbook says middle C is C4, but some DAWs will say C3 or C5. The Helmholtz convention is clear enough (c’ for middle c), but it isn’t widely used in America.
Trumpet players use all sorts of terms for notes, particularly above high C, so the easiest way for me is to use language that everyone will get. As Jon says in his video, “you don’t have to be right, you just have to not be wrong.” |
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Trumpetown Regular Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2020 Posts: 69 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Goby wrote: | Well, it's right in the middle of the trumpet register. Theres a C below it, and a C above it. Double C doesn't really count since so few people play up there. |
On the trumpet there is no note below middle C (C below the staff). Lowest note is F#. I'm leaving pedal tones out of the conversation. _________________ Conn SS1 |
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Trumpetown Regular Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2020 Posts: 69 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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khedger wrote: | When I'm trying to convey information about trumpet notes I tend to do the following:
- I'll refer to notes that fall below the staff like "F# below the staff"
- similarly, notes in the staff like "Bb in (or on) the staff"
- then "high A or C"
- then "F above high C" or "double F"
I don't think this is anything official, but it seems to be an effective way to talk about the notes, at least it's always worked well for me.
keith |
So for you, the Double G is below the Double C. That just doesn't sit right with me.
What I'm getting at is that high notes are above High C and doubles are above Double C. To me it makes the most sense.
The problem is that there's no term for the notes above the staff that are below High C. They're not high notes and not middle notes.....at least to me. _________________ Conn SS1 |
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Trumpetown Regular Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2020 Posts: 69 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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JoseLindE4 wrote: | The recently departed Jon Ruff has a nice video about naming conventions that has informed how I communicate. I name notes in relation to their placement relative to the staff (x below the staff, first space f, second line g, a above the staff) or high C (b below high c, f about high C) and double C (b below double c, f above double c). It’s clear and always easily understandable.
There are many standard conventions, but they often conflict — see the scientific pitch notation that is often taught in beginning college theory classes and the various versions of what number is assigned to piano middle c. The theory textbook says middle C is C4, but some DAWs will say C3 or C5. The Helmholtz convention is clear enough (c’ for middle c), but it isn’t widely used in America.
Trumpet players use all sorts of terms for notes, particularly above high C, so the easiest way for me is to use language that everyone will get. As Jon says in his video, “you don’t have to be right, you just have to not be wrong.” |
I didn't realize Ruff has passed. That's awful. He posted a video two months ago. So sorry to hear about this.
I have a question about your post as I try to move past the news of Ruff.
Where is your Double G? Above or below Double C? _________________ Conn SS1 |
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JoseLindE4 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 791
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Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:08 am Post subject: |
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I avoid referring to double G. It’s either G above high C or G about double high C depending on which note I’m referring to. The point is to avoid the confusion of what’s a double and just get to the sounds.
High or double are pretty unlikely to be referring to G above double C. If someone else says high G or double G, I assume they’re referring to the G above high C. |
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wohlrab Veteran Member
Joined: 30 Mar 2015 Posts: 131 Location: California
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Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:46 am Post subject: |
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"Low"
F# under the staff to D
"At the bottom of the staff"
Eb to F#
"In the staff"
G to C#
"At the top of the staff"
D to F#
"High"
G to F#
"Double"
G to G
"Triple"
Who cares
I've never had an issue playing with pros who didn't know what I was talking about as soon as I said it |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9032 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Does anybody know what a Double High C is? Work backwards.
One octave down is High C.
The next octave down (in the staff) is Middle C.
The note one octave lower (below the staff) is Low C.
The other notes are in relation to that, beginning with the trumpet's natural lowest note, Gb below low C, and up.
This has been gone over ad nauseum, usually with the same results.
That system is within the trumpet's range/notation. If you are talking to a group of mixed instruments, use the Grans Staff. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Last edited by kehaulani on Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Trumpetown Regular Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2020 Posts: 69 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | Does anybody know what a Double High C is? Work backwards.
One octave down is High C.
The next octave down (in the staff) is Middle C.
The note one octave lower (below the staff) is Low C.
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Isn't the C below the staff middle C? Or is that only on the Piano? I thought it was for all instruments. _________________ Conn SS1 |
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wilder Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2020 Posts: 341 Location: NYC
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Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | Does anybody know what a Double High C is? Work backwards.
One octave down is High C.
The next octave down (in the staff) is Middle C.
The note one octave lower (below the staff) is Low C.
The other notes are in relation to that, beginning with the trumpet's natural lowest note, Gb below middle C, and up.
This has been gone over ad nauseum, usually with the same results.
That system is within the trumpet's range/notation. If you are talking to a group of mixed instruments, use the Grans Staff. | Best answer. Thank God. jw |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9032 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:18 am Post subject: |
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Trumpetown wrote: | Isn't the C below the staff middle C? Or is that only on the Piano? I thought it was for all instruments. |
It can be a little confusing so I specify to a group, or individual, at the beginning just to avoid any ambiguity.
There are two systems, one related to each individual instrument's range, in and of itself. The other relates to the system using a universally agreed on system that pertains to the concert pitch, alone.
While the second (Grand Staff), is also correct, I find it more practical to just use each instrument's terminology not the grand staff. OTOH, if I say, "Play a Concert C", I assume all instrumentalists know what pitch, and in what register, I mean.
I hope this didn't just make it more complex than it needs to be. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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