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Who makes your favourite stock production C trumpet? |
Yamaha |
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38% |
[ 24 ] |
Bach |
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31% |
[ 20 ] |
Shires |
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6% |
[ 4 ] |
Schagerl |
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1% |
[ 1 ] |
B&S |
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3% |
[ 2 ] |
Schilke |
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15% |
[ 10 ] |
Stomvi |
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1% |
[ 1 ] |
Fides |
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1% |
[ 1 ] |
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Total Votes : 63 |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2441
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Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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4 days in and Bach and Yamaha are tied - talk about mirroring the real world!
The sounds I have heard in symphonic settings that have impacted me the most have been played on Yamahas in recent years. In the chamber world, the players I respect the most, play Bach 229.
It is interesting that both companies use "Chicago", a reference to the famed Herseth and company Bachs, yet the "Chicago sound" historically is a French trumpet sound, the concept predating the orchestral migration to Cs, and harkening back to Besson (and Benge), not either of these two. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9372 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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I just temporarily broke the tie. Bach 239 ML, 25C leadpipe. Light sound, but a beautiful tone. Yeah, the D, Eb, and E in the upper part of the staff need alternate fingerings, but the horn plays so well I don’t mind. _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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Trumpetingbynurture Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Posts: 898
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Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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OldSchoolEuph wrote: | 4 days in and Bach and Yamaha are tied - talk about mirroring the real world!
The sounds I have heard in symphonic settings that have impacted me the most have been played on Yamahas in recent years. In the chamber world, the players I respect the most, play Bach 229.
It is interesting that both companies use "Chicago", a reference to the famed Herseth and company Bachs, yet the "Chicago sound" historically is a French trumpet sound, the concept predating the orchestral migration to Cs, and harkening back to Besson (and Benge), not either of these two. |
It is quite interesting. I have noticed that many of the well-known C trumpet soloists are playing yamaha's... Hakan, Tine Thing Helseth etc.
And David Bilger, Tom Hooten etc are on yamaha's as well. So yamaha does seem increasingly to be edging Bach out of the market.
I heard LSO principal trumpet (David Elton) playing some Mahler on a yamaha C and his sound was possibly the most beautiful thing I've ever heard with my own two ears. Couldn't get that sound out of my head for days. How much that is just how Mr. Elton sounds and how much the Yammie was helping is anyone's guess, but it was quite something! |
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Robert1 Regular Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2018 Posts: 23
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Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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I have bled Bach for most of my adult life and professional career, to the point of being ridiculously biased. A couple of months ago, I had a Yamaha Chicago Generation III C Trumpet sent to me. I did not want to like it. I hoped and prayed that I would not like it. My hope and prayers were answered. I did not like it. I loved it. I am still biased toward Bach (My old 229 C is really in-tune, and amazing), but... the Yamaha Chicago Gen III C was just...better... better in everything. Better highs, better lows, soft, loud, and even the pitch is a little better. And the sound... forget about it. It's magnificent. It's glorious. So, when it was all said, and done... Yep... I kept my Bach. And also bought the Yamaha. |
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Trombacan Veteran Member
Joined: 30 Nov 2009 Posts: 102 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:17 pm Post subject: fav c |
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Yamaha Chicago Gen 3 _________________ "It's simple, it just isn't easy" - VC |
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wilder Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2020 Posts: 341 Location: NYC
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:39 am Post subject: |
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silverplated Bach largebore 229bell Hpipe. jw |
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Steve A Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 1808 Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:22 am Post subject: |
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I think that there's a facet of the eternal Bach vs. Yamaha debate that doesn't get remarked upon as regularly as it should (in view of how often this general discussion happens):
It's long been accepted that Yamahas are more even and easier to play, but that Bachs, despite their shortcomings in those areas, have the better sound. As an example, we give Herseth, or Phil Smith, or any of a long list of great players from the past who played Bachs. The thing is that Yamahas have kept getting better, both in playability and sound, whereas Bachs are still mostly what they always were (or less). The playability advantage of Yamahas remains uncontested, but many my favourite players of today that I use as sound models to emulate play Yamahas.
Yamahas were already better than Bachs in many areas, and they've made big progress where sound is concerned. They are maybe better on all notes, and their worst notes are certainly much better than the worst notes on most Bachs. I still play a Bach C, but I'm saving up for a Yamaha. |
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ProAm Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 949
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:38 am Post subject: |
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I have a 1980 Bach 239 bell large bore with 25 leadpipe C that I tolerated. I put a Blackburn pipe & round tuning slide on it and loved it. Later I got a Blackburn C which was another level of good.
I did try a school-owned Chicago model Bach that a friend had. I was surprised at how well that horn played and how much I liked it. I wouldn’t mind having one of those. |
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James Becker Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 2827 Location: Littleton, MA
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:18 am Post subject: |
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Not to steal anyone’s thunder, all instruments listed have wonderful attributes. I’d like to take the opportunity to remind folks about the transformational effects of our blueprinting service. I’ve lost track of the number of players that nearly gave up on their C trumpets, only to find many of their issues were mitigated by performing these services. It stands to reason if you could retain the sonic qualities of you C trumpet but make it easier to play why wouldn’t you? When pitch and response issues can be directly linked to perturbations in the bore, setting up your trumpet as close to it’s original design without these disruptions, it will play at it’s best.
And when pistons and mouthpiece receivers wear, reducing stability and efficiency, we can restore them to spec allowing your trumpet to play like new again.
I would like to add, all this can be done while maintaining it’s authenticity so it remains stock, only better executed.
Just some food for thought.... _________________ James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com
Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US |
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Voltrane Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 630 Location: Paris (France)
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:57 am Post subject: |
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I own a C Bach 239 ( also 238 but I do not use it a lot) and a Bb Xeno 8335RGS that I love a lot.
A little tired with the E and Eb of my 239 I tried a C Yamaha Chicago but I was disappointed : neither the feeling nor the sound of what I expect from a C Trumpet.
So I tried a Schilke C3 and that is a C horn!
As I am a Frenchman, it is possible I am biased toward light and bright sounding C trumpet!
I did not buy the Schilke because I am not sure the difference with my Bach worth 3500€!
That said if I were in the US I would certainly first try the Blue Printing before any investment. _________________ S’il n’en reste qu’un je serai celui là (Victor Hugo)
Je m’empresse d’en rire de peur d’avoir à en pleurer (Beaumarchais) |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8335 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Bach C trumpets are the reason I hate C trumpets. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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James Becker Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 2827 Location: Littleton, MA
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Crazy Finn wrote: | Bach C trumpets are the reason I hate C trumpets. |
The last Bach C trumpet I worked on was constricted by more than .020” at the bell ferrule. That along with valve alignment, de-burring and sizing slides went a long way to realizing it’s full potential. Just saying.... _________________ James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com
Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US |
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