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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:14 pm Post subject: Routine, other than Bb trumpet? |
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Does anyone practice their routine on a trumpet other than Bb? I play Bb the vast majority of the time but I play C plenty and occasionally piccolo. Does anyone recommend alternating? _________________ Kevin |
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spitvalve Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 Posts: 2158 Location: Little Elm, TX
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Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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A lot of trumpeters, especially orchestral players, play almost everything on C trumpet because it's their job. Depends on your needs and preferences, really--whatever horn you need for an upcoming performance will get the bulk of your practice time.
My piccolo gets a few minutes every other day except during the Christmas season when I might need to do the Messiah--then it gets a lot more time. I do try to play every horn in my collection at least three times per week in my normal practice rotation, but the time I put in on each horn can vary depending on need. _________________ Bryan Fields
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces |
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5860 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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I was never serious about playing the other key trumpets, but I recall that Adam had a few of his most advanced and orchestrally focused players playing all or most of the routine on C trumpet. However, 90% of his students did the majority of their practice on Bb. I'd be interested in hearing from Karl Sievers, Jim Reed, or some of the other more orchestrally oriented folks on this specifically. _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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deleted_user_48e5f31 New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:15 pm Post subject: Daily routine on C |
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Deleted by dfcoleman
Last edited by deleted_user_48e5f31 on Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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deleted_user_687c31b New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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Is there a significant difference in doing so? |
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5860 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:59 am Post subject: Re: Daily routine on C |
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dfcoleman wrote: | I do my daily technique stuff on C or on Bb. I find mixing it up a bit keeps things interesting and productive.
When I was in school, though, I always started the day and did my initial tech stuff on Bb trumpet.
I was not a student of Bill Adam while I was at IU, though. Just noticed this is in the Adam forum. |
FYI, Dave is a GREAT trumpet player and was respected by all of the Adam students who were fellow travelers at IU. He knows his stuff. _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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Nonsense Eliminator Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Posts: 5212 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:29 am Post subject: |
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I am not going to pretend my own experience is remotely definitive on this, but here's my two cents. I had lessons on the side with Mr. Adam while I was at IU, and was in John Rommel's studio for a semester, so my knowledge of Mr. Adam's pedagogy is informed but by no means authoritative.
I virtually always played routine on B flat trumpet while I was at IU, and as far as I know so did everybody else than anybody else who was taking lessons from Mr. Adam or studying with Mr. Rommel.
After I left IU, I found myself increasingly playing routine on C trumpet — partly because I often worked out of town and warmed up at the hall before work, and I simply didn't feel like carting around another instrument. I saw Mr. Adam once or twice after I left IU and I think I asked him about this — I don't think he objected, especially since if he had I probably would have stopped. But that was over fifteen years ago, so my memory is foggy.
For 10-15 years I played routine on C trumpet exclusively (except for playing routine with students). And by "exclusively" I mean that even if I was not going to play C trumpet at all that day, I played routine on C trumpet. I found it helpful to start every day the same way on the same horn. (For leadpipe exercise I used a B flat pipe however.)
Over the last couple of years, I've returned to playing routine on B flat trumpet almost exclusively. I needed to reboot a few things in my playing and this helped. I find that on C trumpet, I'm more likely to push on the sound — for some reason the instrument just penalizes this less than the B flat does. I will say that I became highly averse to the B flat trumpet when I was playing routine on C.
(In all honesty, my return to playing routine on B flat is facilitated by the fact that most mornings I have a kid to get to school, so I'm up earlier and I'm much less likely to warm up at work than I used to be.)
I am under no delusions that this current situation is guaranteed to be a permanent thing — in fact, I feel a little less connected to the C trumpet than I used to, and I wonder about mixing in some days where I play routine on C. Of course, this pandemic (you might have heard about it) has messed with both my practice and performance schedules, so there are many factors which could explain my current comfort levels with various instruments...
TL;DR I don't think there's anything wrong with playing routine on C trumpet, but if you're doing it exclusively, be attentive that the C trumpet isn't letting you get away with leaning on the sound. _________________ Richard Sandals
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:05 am Post subject: |
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My teacher was adamant about always starting on the big horn (Bb) before spending any time on the others.
[Just noticed that this is a dedicated forum. Feel free to discount my entry.] _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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deleted_user_48e5f31 New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:02 am Post subject: Kind words |
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Thank you for your kind words, Pat.
IU was , and is, a truly special place.
Last edited by deleted_user_48e5f31 on Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the thoughtful responses! I'll give it a go on C, see how much it turns me sideways, and go from there. I do practice some fundamentals on C and Piccolo already.
Some other interesting points were brought up though. Singing in the upper register can be a significant limitation for some of us (I can barely sing a C above the staff...). When you approach the upper register outside your singing range, do you find it more effective sing in a lower octave or do you just spend more energy on visualization?
Blowing the leadpipe on C trumpet seems much more squirrelly. It seems much harder for me to find the "right" sound. Is it too short to function the same as Bb? On Bb it seems like I can easily blow straight down the center but C could go anywhere... _________________ Kevin |
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5860 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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I'm pretty sure Adam always used the Bb pipe. _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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deleted_user_48e5f31 New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:26 am Post subject: Singing |
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Deleted by dfcoleman
Last edited by deleted_user_48e5f31 on Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: Singing |
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dfcoleman wrote: | I sing the lower octave.
You can sing a 2nd ledger line C? Only in my dreams. |
Well, "sing" is what I try to do. I definitely produce a sound that is mostly "C"
_________________ Kevin |
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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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It doesn't seem to matter though. Even bad singing helps me! _________________ Kevin |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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kevin_soda wrote: | It doesn't seem to matter though. Even bad singing helps me! |
Keep the vowel constant _________________ Bill Bergren |
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deleted_user_48e5f31 New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:52 pm Post subject: Routine |
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Deleted by dfcoleman
Last edited by deleted_user_48e5f31 on Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Trumpetingbynurture Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Posts: 898
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Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: Singing |
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kevin_soda wrote: | dfcoleman wrote: | I sing the lower octave.
You can sing a 2nd ledger line C? Only in my dreams. |
Well, "sing" is what I try to do. I definitely produce a sound that is mostly "C"
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Fun fact... if you're male, you'll probably find that what you think is 2nd ledger C in your vocal range is actually an octave lower than you think it is. We get so used to singing everything an octave lower than written that our brains really think they're the same octave. At least mine does.
You'd probably even sit down at a piano and play that note, sing it, and be totally convinced you're singing the same octave. But if you get a tuner out that shows octaves, your voice will be C5 and the piano C6. The more you know, the less you wish you knew... |
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5860 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:05 am Post subject: |
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Billy B wrote: | kevin_soda wrote: | It doesn't seem to matter though. Even bad singing helps me! |
Keep the vowel constant |
^^^VERY IMPORTANT^^^^
When I sing I try to sing with a "trumpet sound," not a "good" vocal sound. _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:31 am Post subject: Re: Singing |
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Trumpetingbynurture wrote: | kevin_soda wrote: | dfcoleman wrote: | I sing the lower octave.
You can sing a 2nd ledger line C? Only in my dreams. |
Well, "sing" is what I try to do. I definitely produce a sound that is mostly "C"
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Fun fact... if you're male, you'll probably find that what you think is 2nd ledger C in your vocal range is actually an octave lower than you think it is. We get so used to singing everything an octave lower than written that our brains really think they're the same octave. At least mine does.
You'd probably even sit down at a piano and play that note, sing it, and be totally convinced you're singing the same octave. But if you get a tuner out that shows octaves, your voice will be C5 and the piano C6. The more you know, the less you wish you knew... |
YOU'RE RIGHT! I had no idea. Maybe I'll start learning all my trumpet music in tenor clef so it looks like I'm playing super high notes all the time... _________________ Kevin |
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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:34 am Post subject: |
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PH wrote: | Billy B wrote: | kevin_soda wrote: | It doesn't seem to matter though. Even bad singing helps me! |
Keep the vowel constant |
^^^VERY IMPORTANT^^^^
When I sing I try to sing with a "trumpet sound," not a "good" vocal sound. |
Okay, I'll try that. Thank you, both. Do you articulate when you sing or is it always "ah?" Or is it based on the phrasing of what you're singing/playing? _________________ Kevin |
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