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OldSchoolEuph
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
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 Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| James Becker wrote: | Andy, truth be told, years ago Wayne Tanabe at his Brass Bow ship made casing extensions with modular internal weights with an o-ring. His inspiration came from the long casings found on Getzen Eterna Cornets.
Curry makes 1” Magnum bottom caps for Schilke. Perhaps hollowing out CCAPS on a lathe would achieve the desired effect of extending casings without the excess weight. This is something we could do for you. |
Can you guys go into a little more functional detail on how this works, because I am having trouble understanding the mechanics.
Horns with longer valve blocks typically also have longer pistons - unless they have a stem spacer on top. Even with a spacer type piston, there is a lot of mass in that piston in addition to the longer casing structure which I don't see represented in an extended hollow cap. Relative to the weighted caps though (and I am talking the mild variety used to roughly offset for one piece casings on a Bach, not the extra heavy variety), wont there be as much mass in a 1 inch casing extension as is added to the standard heavy cap? So is it something about resonance of the length of the block ? (having trouble picturing the valve block as a free resonator)
This sounds fascinating, so any theoretical details would be most appreciated.
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Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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James Becker
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Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 2827
Location: Littleton, MA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:27 am Post subject: |
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Namely Benge 8Z has longer spring barrels, and Schilke P-7 have taller valve stem bases in order to repurpose trumpet pistons in longer valve casings.
The Getzen Eterna Cornet uses identical pistons to their trumpets, just a longer than average casing.
Whether someone wants to launch a study of the effects or not, this is one of the most successful models in Getzen’s line up.
Building trumpets on longer and shorter valve blocks has been done ny several makers, including Monette and I believe Taylor or Eclipse.
Extending the casings alone adds substantial mass, so having modular hollow extensions would be relatively easy to manufacture.
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James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com
Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US |
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Andy Del
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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 2665
Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Olds recording cornet as well... by my measuring, its about an inch more length in the valve casing. I'd compare it to a piston trumpet, but who has one of these at the beach house? 
cheers
Andy
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so many horns, so few good notes... |
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Bionx
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Joined: 02 Apr 2010
Posts: 181
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:54 am Post subject: |
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What happened to the harmonic balancers? Not on Osmun’s website anymore. I can’t seem to find much about them on google either. Are they no longer produced?
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lipshurt
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Location: vista ca
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| Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Conn bottom sprung casings are longer and it changes things quite a bit. For instance the 22b with top springs is lighter block than the 22b with bottom springs
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Jimbosan
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Joined: 15 Dec 2023
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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I put this together out of parts that I already had in my plumbing supplies. That's the 3rd slide of my Olds Custom Crafted trumpet. The horn is naturally bright and I want to see if I can dampen it a little without making it too dead. If I like the change I can look for brass parts at ACE Hardware. If I really like the change, I may pay for an aftermarket set. I also have brass washers that fit in the lower valve caps, so I can try a combination of things. It's cheaper than changing mouthpieces or buying aftermarket gimicks on a whim.
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Kanstul FBClassic bflat&C
'42 Buescher205
'45 Committee
'47 Holton48
'47 Conn22b
'48 Benge
'69 Olds Custom Crafted
'78 Getzen Eterna
'64 Bach Strad Cornet
'62 Olds Spl Cornet
'64 Conn 80a
'54 Conn 34a
Benge flugel
Olds,DEG Bugles |
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Ronnman
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Joined: 09 Aug 2019
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Location: SE Louisiana
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Jimbosan wrote: | | I put this together out of parts that I already had in my plumbing supplies. That's the 3rd slide of my Olds Custom Crafted trumpet. The horn is naturally bright and I want to see if I can dampen it a little without making it too dead. If I like the change I can look for brass parts at ACE Hardware. If I really like the change, I may pay for an aftermarket set. I also have brass washers that fit in the lower valve caps, so I can try a combination of things. It's cheaper than changing mouthpieces or buying aftermarket gimicks on a whim. |
Jimbosan - that’s a pretty cleaver and cheap damper/weight, using a couple faucet washers and a screw/nut 8-24? How did it effect the tone? Interest because I have an Olds CC.
Ron
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Martin Committee #2 1954
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Jimbosan
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Joined: 15 Dec 2023
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Ronnman wrote: | | Jimbosan wrote: | | I put this together out of parts that I already had in my plumbing supplies. That's the 3rd slide of my Olds Custom Crafted trumpet. The horn is naturally bright and I want to see if I can dampen it a little without making it too dead. If I like the change I can look for brass parts at ACE Hardware. If I really like the change, I may pay for an aftermarket set. I also have brass washers that fit in the lower valve caps, so I can try a combination of things. It's cheaper than changing mouthpieces or buying aftermarket gimicks on a whim. |
Jimbosan - that’s a pretty cleaver and cheap damper/weight, using a couple faucet washers and a screw/nut 8-24? How did it effect the tone? Interest because I have an Olds CC.
Ron |
I have a cut on my bottom lip so I haven't tried it yet.
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Kanstul FBClassic bflat&C
'42 Buescher205
'45 Committee
'47 Holton48
'47 Conn22b
'48 Benge
'69 Olds Custom Crafted
'78 Getzen Eterna
'64 Bach Strad Cornet
'62 Olds Spl Cornet
'64 Conn 80a
'54 Conn 34a
Benge flugel
Olds,DEG Bugles |
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dr_trumpet
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Joined: 22 Nov 2001
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Location: Cope, IN
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Bionx wrote: | | What happened to the harmonic balancers? Not on Osmun’s website anymore. I can’t seem to find much about them on google either. Are they no longer produced? |
They were made by Curry and available for some time on Mouthpiece Express, but have disappeared there too.
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Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
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Andy Cooper
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Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 1830
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2024 9:29 am Post subject: |
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" harmonic balancers"
You can test this with cork wedged into the inside curve of the slide crooks. I use gasket cork scraps left over from making mute corks.
There really can be a difference - at least in the practice room. I can't say there is a difference to the audience but there is a difference in player feedback. |
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