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khedger Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 754 Location: Cambridge, MA
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Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:35 pm Post subject: How do you keep your horn shiny? |
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What kind of materials/routine do you use to polish your horn? I used to use some stuff from 3M called TarniShield. Don't know if it's made anymore. It worked great, but was very messy to use. I have recently acquired a horn that I want to keep clean -- so what do you guys do?
keith |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12699 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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Tarnishield for me. I don’t find it particularly messy.
I also purchased some anti-tarnish cloth and made bags that I store my silver horns in. |
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arthurtwoshedsjackson Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Aug 2020 Posts: 159
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Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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Silver plate? Haggerty (like the smell) or Wright’s (like the sponge applicator). Both sparingly to preserve the plating. Both work fine. I keep anti-tarnish strips in the case.
Raw brass? Brasso or leave it unpolished. |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12699 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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arthurtwoshedsjackson wrote: | Silver plate? Haggerty (like the smell) or Wright’s (like the sponge applicator). Both sparingly to preserve the plating. Both work fine. I keep anti-tarnish strips in the case.
Raw brass? Brasso or leave it unpolished. |
If my memory is correct I found haggerty’s smell to be off putting. As a result I searched a little more for TarniShield.
Edit: I checked and the cleaner whose odor I didn’t like was Haggerty. |
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wilder Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2020 Posts: 341 Location: NYC
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Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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Haggerty |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2619
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Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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Baking soda and aluminum foil for silver plate. Clean the horn inside and out thoroughly with soapy water - really clean the outside with a soft cloth or sponge with soapy water. Carefully wrap the horn in aluminum foil. Have all the other silver plated pieces in/on other pieces of foil.
Boil water in a couple of big stock pots - like a 15 quart and and 7 quart, carefully pour the water into a plastic tub large enough to completely submerge the horn - be careful, the steam is going to come back up at you. And of course splashing yourself with boiling hot water is bad.
Dissolve say a cup of baking soda in the hot water - stir it good with a wood spoon or the like. Carefully place the horn and parts wrapped in foil into the water. Most of the reaction will happen close to immediately but let it soak for a while, remove using silicone tipped tongs or wait for the water to cool enough to remove by hand. Should come out sparkling - as it's been explained to me the chemical reaction removes the sulfur which causes the tarnish without removing any silver. The foil turns grungy. If you want to hit it again you can use another pot to refill the same boiling vessels with the same water and repeat. You'll need to use fresh aluminum foil. I set the tub on a towel to absorb any water that make splash out while transferring the used water back into the boiling pots.
You're going to need to wash the exterior of the pieces again to get rid of baking soda residue but overall it's a lot less messy than using silver polish and you're not taking any of the silver plate off. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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Jerry Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 Posts: 2175 Location: Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12699 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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The baking soda and hot water method is highly discouraged by Jeffrey Herman, a well respected silversmith. That said, I have used it on hard to remove marks where the Bach grime gutter tarnished the silver. (Who knew those were not intended to be left on after purchasing?)
If you do use that method be prepared to shine up your horn more often when compared to something like TarniShield that has a tarnish inhibitor built into the cream. |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2619
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Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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LittleRusty wrote: | The baking soda and hot water method is highly discouraged by Jeffrey Herman, a well respected silversmith. |
Looking at his site the only place I see him talk about it is related to silverware, that it can remove decorative patina, not an issue with a typical horn. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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Frasse Regular Member
Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 20 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:25 am Post subject: |
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Personally i stopped applying any sort of polish to my instruments years ago. I have found that just wiping the instrument off with a good microfiber cloth every time i play is enough for me. It doesnt remove actual oxidized silver (of course), but it is surprisingly effective. And if i really need spotless shine at some point, that shine is maintained for much longer by wiping it after every use.
As a bonus i am positive the instrument will stay in better general condition for longer if you remove all the sweat, moist, salt and dirt frequently.
I did experiment with aluminium foil some 10 years ago, but i found that the oxygen just moved from the silver to the brass parts (insides of slides). Perhaps it was just the composition of the brass alloy in that particular trumpet... _________________ Bb: Bach Strad 37
C: Bach 229 Laskey conversion
Cornet: B&S Challenger 2 |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:16 am Post subject: |
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You'd be surprised by how nice a silver horn looks if you clean it now and then with Windex. Makes the brass horns look shiny, too. _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12699 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Robert P wrote: | LittleRusty wrote: | The baking soda and hot water method is highly discouraged by Jeffrey Herman, a well respected silversmith. |
Looking at his site the only place I see him talk about it is related to silverware, that it can remove decorative patina, not an issue with a typical horn. |
HermanSilver.com wrote: | The aluminum foil technique (in which the user is encouraged to soak silver in water containing baking soda and a piece of aluminum foil) will also allow tarnish to form more quickly. |
In the section of his website where he discusses the aluminum foil process he states a couple of issues. One is the removal of factory patina, in which he uses a fork to demonstrate. Another is etching of the silver which, on my reading, makes the silver surface prone to faster tarnishing.
There are tons of recommendations on the web that recommend the method so obviously there are many people who are satisfied with the results.
I have no issues with the horn I used it on either. |
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Jim19043 Veteran Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2020 Posts: 107 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Before I switched to trumpet, I played flute for 20 years. I learned that the oil and other residue from our skin can promote silver tarnish. The first and best line of defense I found was just as Frasse wrote: clean the instrument with a microfiber cloth after every session. I particularly like the blue microfiber cloths from UltraPure: they are nice and big, and stand up to washing.
I also keep a 3M anti-tarnish strip in my instrument case, and changed it every few months.
Once a silver-plated horn is clean, this regimen will reduce the need to use polish. _________________ Jim19043
1998 Bach Strad L180S72
GR 3MX |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2619
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Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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LittleRusty wrote: | Robert P wrote: | LittleRusty wrote: | The baking soda and hot water method is highly discouraged by Jeffrey Herman, a well respected silversmith. |
Looking at his site the only place I see him talk about it is related to silverware, that it can remove decorative patina, not an issue with a typical horn. |
HermanSilver.com wrote: | The aluminum foil technique (in which the user is encouraged to soak silver in water containing baking soda and a piece of aluminum foil) will also allow tarnish to form more quickly. |
In the section of his website where he discusses the aluminum foil process he states a couple of issues. One is the removal of factory patina, in which he uses a fork to demonstrate. Another is etching of the silver which, on my reading, makes the silver surface prone to faster tarnishing.
There are tons of recommendations on the web that recommend the method so obviously there are many people who are satisfied with the results.
I have no issues with the horn I used it on either. |
Since it leaves no coating as silver polishes do I'm sure it's more prone to tarnishing which I imagine is mitigated somewhat by storing it in the case. I bet an application of paste wax would work too. I imagine a lot of people are like me and leave the horn out most of the time. My perhaps incorrect assumption is that etching if it actually does occur might be due to removing sulfur and whatever molecular level crater might result - however my understanding is it doesn't remove silver which polishing definitely does - if true it's less destructive of the silver plate. I know the horn looks bright and shiny after.
I need to look into it further. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel
Last edited by Robert P on Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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darksmoke Regular Member
Joined: 27 Apr 2020 Posts: 45 Location: Washington
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Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone know of anything similar to the 3M Tarnishield but for a lacquered finish instead of plate? My axe is slowly gaining little spots of wear around contact points. I may be in a lacquer minority here _________________ Bach 1B
-Reeves 40ES DM
-Giardinelli 4*
-Callet SC6 |
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Cornet2Trumpet New Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2020 Posts: 9
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12699 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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People sometimes use clear nail polish on those areas. I think some techs use lemon pledge, or something like that, to shine the lacquer. |
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khedger Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 754 Location: Cambridge, MA
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Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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darksmoke wrote: | Anyone know of anything similar to the 3M Tarnishield but for a lacquered finish instead of plate? My axe is slowly gaining little spots of wear around contact points. I may be in a lacquer minority here |
So this brings up another question for me. What is the finish called that is silver colored, but not silver plate (I don't think my Benge is silver plate--anyone?).
Is that a lacquer finish? Would tarni sheild not work on that?
keith |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8348 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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khedger wrote: | So this brings up another question for me. What is the finish called that is silver colored, but not silver plate (I don't think my Benge is silver plate--anyone?).
Is that a lacquer finish? Would tarni sheild not work on that? |
My Benge is definitely silver plated. The same as Bachs. You can polish it like any other silver. I don't, but one can.
Other silver colored finishes are chrome, like car bumpers, some bugles, some G bugles for DCI back in the day, super cheap Indian instruments, etc... Also, nickel is jkinda silver color or ... ah... nickel.
darksmoke wrote: | Anyone know of anything similar to the 3M Tarnishield but for a lacquered finish instead of plate? My axe is slowly gaining little spots of wear around contact points. I may be in a lacquer minority here |
Silver polish generally works by roving a thin layer of tarnished silver and exposing the non-tarnished silver beneath. It doesn't "shine" anything, it just removes the not shiny stuff.
(Tarnishield works a bit differently, but most work the way I describe)
A Lacquered finish is literally a lacquer coating on your trumpet. In other words it's a clear coat of paint over your brass to keep it shiny.
However, it wears off over time and on contact points. There's no "polish" to reapply it, it's just worn off. You can have a shop or tech relacquer it, but it's a procedure that involves stripping the old lacquer, some prep, and reapplying it and runs in around $500 roughly. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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camelbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2002 Posts: 1397 Location: Dubai, UAE
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Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:31 am Post subject: |
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I've had silver instruments stored in their cases for 10 years and just a spot touch up with silver polish and a session with a micro fiber cloth has bought them back to new. Maintenance regime is just the odd rubdown with the microfiber cloth again.
I've got a 1936 Olds in lacquer and nickel that was also stored and only ever needs a wipe down for finger prints.
The real problem was mouthpieces which had a reaction with the lining of their pouch.
Regards,
Trevor |
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