Advanced players, don't be afraid - B.E. is an indirect meth

oj · Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 5:39 am Post subject:

Trumpet players from all over the place, contact me and ask if I think B.E. is a good method and if it will work for them.

These people are often advanced players with some chop problems (lack of range, endurance , etc.). They have run into my interview with Jeff and want my opinion.

Thanks to my friends in Norway, Rune, Olaf, Svein who also use B.E. and who have been sharing experiences via email and in person (we met this summer), I now can tell people this:

B.E. is an indirect method!
(Thanks to Bert in Holland for this description. Also see Lloyd F. Roberts post in another tread in this forum.)

This means that you can start working on B.E. while continuing playing like you have done before. Do the exercises like Jeff describe in B.E. and listen carefully to the CD! For the rest of the time, play your regular gigs and whatever you like.

By doing this over a period (a year) the chops will on its own change for the better, or as Jeff says (on page 57)
"given the right amount of exaggerated movements in more or less the right direction, the lips unconsciously already know what to do"

Some of my friends like Svein (who took lessons from Jeff) have also started doing Caruso exercises. Svein and I agree that B.E. and Caruso share the same great basic concept:
Just do the exercises like described. Don't think - just do it!

Then for the rest of the time - make music!

Ole

P.S.
The interview with Jeff is here:
http://abel.hive.no/trumpet/smiley/

trumpetteacher1 · Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 10:08 am Post subject:

Ole,

I never stop being impressed with guys like you, Ko, Bert, Henning, etc., not just for your insight, but for your astonishing language skills. Every one of you speaks and writes English as a second language, yet you are able to communicate very subtle ideas - in English - to a degree which few can match here in the US.

When I think of what it took for you to master these skills, I just shake my head. I consider your efforts here, and elsewhere that all of you post, to be nothing short of heroic.

For those who don't know Ole, go to http://abel.hive.no/trumpet/ and poke around a little bit. You can get lost there for days, as his web site is the biggest trumpet information archive on the internet.

Jeff

[ This Message was edited by: trumpetteacher1 on 2003-11-15 13:15 ]

HJ · Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 1:12 pm Post subject:

Hi Ole, hi Jeff,

Nice to see this BE forum. For the people who don't know me, I am a pro from Holland. I do the BE for a year and a half now, and I am very happy with it. My range went from a reasonable high C/D to a strong G3 (and an everyday Double High C, not owning it, alas, up till now). I never thought I could play lead ( I am an improviser, and not a bad one, but I never had the chops to play a lead part) and I am almost ready to do my first gigs as a leadplayer now.

Thanks Ole for mentioning me, but the word Indirect really comes from Jeff himself. There is a whole chapter on Direct vs Indirect in Jeffs book which for me was the thing I needed to go try BE in the first place. And although my embouchure is constantly changing, and I am constantly experimenting with new elements that I feel, it is really true.
Yeah, you guys out there who cannot believe it: it is really true!!!! Of course there are times of instability, but I never lost the ability to perform. In the past I did some changes very radically (Farkas, Stamp, Gordon) and they all failed after one, two or three years of really hard practice (five or six hours a day is a lot..., the best teachers available in the field, and a lot of frustration with yet another performance being limited by chop problems.

I could not afford to mess up my chops once again and I didn't. So if you are a pro and are not sure if you want to try, just do as Ole tells you, as I tell you and as Jeff will tell you: buy the book, listen to the CD and jump right into it. It is actually fun.

Bert Lochs

trumpetteacher1 · Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 7:00 pm Post subject:

Nobody has picked up the BE concepts, owned them, and generated new insights, faster than Bert.

He has that rare ability to grasp the essence of whatever he's involved in.

I know that you love to play, Bert, but I hope that you also spend a lot of time teaching. You are going to help a lot of players!

Jeff

Charlie Cheeseburger · Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 5:37 pm Post subject:

Hi,

I've been away for a while on tour, and upon my return, imagine my delight to find that there is now a dedicated BE forum, moderated by the master himself, Jeff Smiley. It really doesn't get better than that, and my sincere thanks to all those responsible for this very welcome development.

For those wondering if BE can work for advanced/professional players, I can answer a resounding 'yes'! As many others have pointed out, the beauty of the system is that it works indirectly, so if you find it impractical to change your embouchure right away, you can use a Smiley-type embouchure for practice, while maintaining your regular embouchure for rehearsal and performance. You will soon find that your lips start to move unconciously into a more efficient position, and that your regular playing is very much enhanced, almost without realizing it. It really is a marvellous feeling when things start to come together, when your lips reach a sort of equilibrium.

I have said this many times on this forum, but it is worth repeating: BE has the potential to transform the next generation of trumpet players, and as such should be required reading for all those who care about the future of trumpet playing and teaching.

Best regards,

Andrew Lynn

trumpetteacher1 · Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 7:34 pm Post subject:

Hey there Andrew!

Long time no email!

I thought about contacting you a couple of times to let you know about the forum, but I kept getting sidetracked. Glad you found it, as you were advocating a BE forum several months ago.

Why the forum started now (short version) is that Todd absolutely dismissed my arguments! With no arguments to hide behind (hey, they were good arguments) I was forced to step forwards or be labled a coward by the other moderators for the rest of my life.

Andrew is another one of those "overseas guys" who has amazed me with his almost instant grasp of the BE principles. It must be the water in Europe, or something.

Thanks for chipping in. Please continue to do so!

Jeff Smiley

Charlie Cheeseburger · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 5:18 am Post subject:

Hi Jeff,

Nice to hear from you. Life has taken over at the moment, but I'll update you of my progress with BE very soon by email.

I will of course contribute to the new forum when I get an opportunity, but in the meantime I'm just getting a feel for it all, and learning a lot in the process.

Best regards,

Andrew Lynn

Aidan · Regular Member Joined: 11 Mar 2004 Posts: 19

would these methods work on instruments other than trumpet?
is it just the principles, or is it a method suited to one instrument only?
_________________
Aidan
Yorkshire Building Society Band | BrassNeck Quintet

Larrios · Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 12:12 am Post subject:

Hi Aidan,

Check out this topic on the forum: http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=14507&forum=29&40

This method is designed for trumpet. If you want to be very specific, Bb trumpet. However, the principles outlined in the book are universal principles, which apply to all brass instruments. The topic posted by Ole (see link above) will give you more detailed information. With some time and creativity, I'm sure you can adapt the same principles to any brass instrument.

Ko

Bruce Lee · Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 3:52 am Post subject:

I'm going to step out on a limb, and say that the more the efficient the embouchure type, the more similarities there are between them. The differences are subtle. By implementing BE concepts, we often are able to move beyond what has seemingly been a never-ending plateau. This was true for me.

I wasn't a broken player when I changed my embouchure. My range stopped at a strong G above high C. Endurance, although it wasn't a problem, was a factor. The change was not immediate, and there were times during my transition where I needed help from the guy on the 2nd book. However, I worked through it. My endurance, accuracy, flexibility, and range all improved... because I built my embouchure from the bottom up. I am warmed up when my double-pedals are very full sounding. I don't start with them. I treat them like an extreme, and I always play them... especially to warm down, or to refresh my chops during a gig.

So, to add to everything that has been said previously, YES!.... BE is a very good direction to take, whether you need a tweak, or to build a new embouchure. Strive to produce a "good sound", and let that help guide you through the process. I think that when we tend to lose our "good sound", we are stretching our limits beyond our capabilities, or level of development. It's just like trying to run, before we've learned to walk. Or, driving a car at a high speed before we can manage it safely at low speeds. (There's a whole other topic: Trumpet Players Who Drive Fast!

)

Make a plan, and plan to BE successful!

Best always,
Bruce

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brucelee@northernbrass.com

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[ This Message was edited by: bruce lee on 2004-03-15 10:25 ]