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No water keys?



 
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kevin_soda
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Joined: 20 Jan 2015
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Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:07 pm    Post subject: No water keys? Reply with quote

So I just watched a video of Dizzy Gillespie from 1970 that showed him playing a horn with no water keys anywhere on the horn.

Who came up with the idea of horns without water keys and which horns were designed this way? I know it's common to have a 3rd valve dump but the main tuning slide always has a water key...

Have you tried horns like this? Does it make a difference?
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Better response.

More inconvenient to remove mouthpiece and empty water from lead pipe.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a Faddis model Schilke with no water key on the tuning slide. I found it to be a pain, so I had one (an Amado) installed. For me, zero difference in how the horn played......but I’m certainly not on a level any where near Faddis, someone like him may in fact notice a significant difference.

Brad
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assume you are really asking who in recent trumpet manufacturing has brought back the retro idea of not using water keys?
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michael_bxl
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Joined: 29 Jul 2015
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Location: Between Brussels and Ankara

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe out of topic, but last year, I was checking for the B&S new mbx3 trumpet, and one of the "new" innovation was they add a water key at the 3rd slide, for "practical reasons".

I was like, okayyyy
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stumac
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Jerome Wiss does not have water keys, because the lower legs of the valve loops are partially uncovered by the valve in the up position they are self draining. it is very easy with the third valve down to transfer water into the third loop then it self drains when the valve up.

French Horns did not have water keys until recently, have you seen a player with a triple horn try to find which of the 12 or so slides has the water in.

Regards, Stuart.
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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just saw a video of Freddie Hubbard in 1986 with no water keys.
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ECLtmpt2
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Joined: 21 Feb 2021
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have heard, which means at best it's a story, that Dizzy and Miles liked the 'wet' sound. I will not take any responsibility for this anecdotal information!

However, when I was at the Schilke factory years ago (YEARS ago!) picking out my specific trumpet (went with a standard B7 that 'fit' me best) the discussion of waterkeys came up. Specifically if I wanted standard or Amado and/or if I wanted a 3rd valve waterkey. That's when the discussion of wind stream disruption came up. At the time, it was only theory to me, but there are those that believe a tuning slide waterkey is close enough to the beginning wind stream that it can have a somewhat significant effect on the tone &/or overtones. (Standard waterkeys have a small reservoir that Amado or no waterkeys don't.) I'm not saying it does one way or another but after being around trumpet players as long as I have there are some that are always looking for that little extra edge. I was never a Phil Smith so I don't know but...

I'm not even sure if Schilke still allows visits to try out their stuff but I had to have an authorized retailer in-line to purchase the horn.
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