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Trumpjerele Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Feb 2019 Posts: 171 Location: Spain
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Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:15 pm Post subject: 12 patterns in a key or a pattern in 12 keys? |
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playing a pattern on the 12 keys helps me remove cobwebs from my mind and fingers. practicing the C bebob scale for a while, with different lines, etc., goes deeper into the sound. what approach do you find most useful? _________________ Notice!!! Amateur musician without formal studies
Trumpet: Yamaha 8310Z
Mouthpiece: the great Yamaha11b4
Sax tenor: Yamaha YTS 23
Mouthpiece: Otto link tone edge |
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5860 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Both, for different purposes. _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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As a novice improviser, I do find benefits in both but I tend to focus more on all 12 keys. It's challenging for me to play the same melody with the same sound in different keys. I also find working through the keys helps me melodically because I hear different things in different keys for a number of reasons. _________________ Kevin |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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PH wrote: | Both, for different purposes. |
_________________ Bill Bergren |
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Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
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Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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Most of my pattern practice consists of me taking licks / lines / whatever through all 12 keys, in a variety of movements (4ths, 5ths, chromatic, etc.).
I personally don't get a lot out of "let me just noodle in D minor for the next 45 minutes" but I understand that for many other players that's the key to unlocking their modal approaches. Whatever works for you! _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2416 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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It's already been said, that both are important. I agree. I try to play something in 12 keys every day.
In addition, I have a maintenance routine. It consists of certain scale patterns, 4-note patterns, and 2-5 patterns that I want to keep fresh. I focus on one key each day, cycling through all 12 keys roughly every 2 weeks.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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victorhaskins Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2012 Posts: 193 Location: Richmond, VA
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Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:15 am Post subject: |
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I try to play a tune through 12 keys each day. I say try because sometimes I don't have time to get through all 12, but simply attempting to play the melody, improvise melodies, and improvise connective bass/harmonic material in different keys is valuable, even if I don't get through all the keys for a given tune. It's also useful for me to try to do it at the piano--the harmonic knowledge and ear training seems to directly transfer to the horn (even though I'm obviously not using trumpet fingerings on the piano). _________________ --
Mr. Victor X. Haskins http://victorhaskins.com/
NEW ALBUM Ikigai available now! http://www.victorhaskins.com/music
Learn about Victor Haskins & SKEIN http://www.victorhaskins.com/skein |
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Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
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Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:18 am Post subject: |
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victorhaskins wrote: | I try to play a tune through 12 keys each day. I say try because sometimes I don't have time to get through all 12, but simply attempting to play the melody, improvise melodies, and improvise connective bass/harmonic material in different keys is valuable, even if I don't get through all the keys for a given tune. It's also useful for me to try to do it at the piano--the harmonic knowledge and ear training seems to directly transfer to the horn (even though I'm obviously not using trumpet fingerings on the piano). |
The above definitely takes a long time to get through all 12 keys, if you're going to play the melody, improvise over the form, and create walking basslines or piano comping. But I always at least try to go a half-step up and a half-step down. That way you know that the melody will still "lay" well in the range of the horn and you'll be getting into some tricky or unfamiliar keys.
The other great option is to fire up a program like iRealPro, which can automatically cycle you through all 12 keys on some given chord changes, whether chromatically or cycle of fifths or whatever. It's certainly the "easy" way to do it when you have limited time to practice! Certainly not as rigorous as what Victor is recommending above, but good enough when you need to finish up and cook dinner... _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a great app that trumpeter Dr. Jared Hall shared with me. It's called Random Roots and was developed by Seattle saxophonist Anton Schwartz. It's fantastic.
https://randomroots.app/about/ _________________ Kevin |
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Honkie Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2013 Posts: 245
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Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:05 am Post subject: |
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I will play something in 12 keys every day: the head of a standard, a difficult phrase I transcribed recently, typical patterns, any melody that might be stuck in my head.
Getting through the 12 keys is important, but equally important is the ordering of the keys, It's a missed opportunity to just walk upwards chromatically by half-step. Here are some other possible orderings:
whole step : 2 x whole tone scale (ascending / descending)
minor third : 3 x full-diminished 7th chord (asc / des)
major 3rd : 4 x augmented triad (asc / des)
fourths : fourths (ascending), fifths (descending)
any 12-tone row (numerous possibilities)
Also, it's another missed opportunity to always start on C or whatever. There's no "first" or "last" keys, and there shouldn't be any "easy" or "hard" ones. God created them all equal, it's our job to get them back to their natural state of equality.
I got motivated to work on this by a brief comment in an interview with Michael Brecker. In passing, he mentioned: you've got to practice in 12 keys, but you've also got to practice moving between keys. He didn't give any examples, but what I described is my attempt to put that in practice. |
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Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
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Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:36 am Post subject: |
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Honkie, to your point, here's a link to a sheet I made for myself a while back:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18XK4uvz-GdjNxJWA_9umprneGKi66XOo/view?usp=sharing
This way I can run licks through different key movements. Admittedly, mine always start on C! So, OK. But this is always pinned to my bulletin board for inspiration... _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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Trumpjerele Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Feb 2019 Posts: 171 Location: Spain
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Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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I appreciate your answers.
I will try to compensate for both approaches. Since the beginning of the year I have been recording my study in a bullet journal, and it really helps me to meet medium-term goals.
I want to practice so many things that I have few exercises that I repeat every day, although every day I try to cover the same blocks. patterns or licks are a part of the WHAT TO PLAY block. _________________ Notice!!! Amateur musician without formal studies
Trumpet: Yamaha 8310Z
Mouthpiece: the great Yamaha11b4
Sax tenor: Yamaha YTS 23
Mouthpiece: Otto link tone edge |
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