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geseco Regular Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2019 Posts: 14 Location: Madrid, Spain
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Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:51 am Post subject: Yamaha 16F4 flugelhorn mouthpiece |
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How does it compare to the 14F4 flugelhorn mouthpiece?
Is it much deeper and darker?
Thanks!
Last edited by geseco on Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Irving Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1892
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Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:50 am Post subject: |
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It is just a wider diameter. If you play a Yamaha flugelhorn, use a Yamaha mouthpiece. They match well together. |
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geseco Regular Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2019 Posts: 14 Location: Madrid, Spain
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Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:51 am Post subject: |
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Yes, I know. It´s a bit wider. |
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geseco Regular Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2019 Posts: 14 Location: Madrid, Spain
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Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone else?
Thank you. |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2671 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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Not what you want to hear, maybe, but Yamaha flugelhorn mouthpieces make my Adams sound too trombony. For me, Curry makes a much better mouthpiece and the choices allow for fine tuning of the sound and response. _________________ Richard
Today's Trumpet: 1937 Cleveland Toreador
Today's Cornet: York Eminence
Today's Mouthpieces: Cleveland T and C |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3366 Location: Endwell NY USA
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8939 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Yamaha says that the 14F4 is a standard cup but the 16F4 is "deep". I see no additional details.
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/brochure/6/1267056/WA-37R.pdf _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8348 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Richard III wrote: | Not what you want to hear, maybe, but Yamaha flugelhorn mouthpieces make my Adams sound too trombony. For me, Curry makes a much better mouthpiece and the choices allow for fine tuning of the sound and response. |
I don't have an Adams, I have a Yamaha 731. I got a 14F4 because I knew it would fit. It was fine. Later a got a few ACB flugel pieces and my 14F4 was immediately relegated to loaner/tester tier. It was literally like those pieces turned on the switch for that flugel, it was night and day. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8939 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Crazy Finn wrote: | Richard III wrote: | Not what you want to hear, maybe, but Yamaha flugelhorn mouthpieces make my Adams sound too trombony. For me, Curry makes a much better mouthpiece and the choices allow for fine tuning of the sound and response. |
I don't have an Adams, I have a Yamaha 731. I got a 14F4 because I knew it would fit. It was fine. Later a got a few ACB flugel pieces and my 14F4 was immediately relegated to loaner/tester tier. It was literally like those pieces turned on the switch for that flugel, it was night and day. |
By coincidence, I play a Yamaha 731 with a 14F4 (that I like just fine) and I just bought my son an ACB Doubler and an ACB 5MDF. I'm really liking his new horn, particularly with the ACB mouthpiece. While I don't consider the sound of the 14F4 to be particularly trombony, using the 5MDF on my 731 definitely change the sound to a more diffuse one in a way I like quite a bit. I need more time on that setup to decide if I'm going to retire the 14F4 or if I want to try a slightly larger ACB piece since the 5 seems a bit smaller than I'm used to. Which size/rim ACB do you think comes closest to the 14F4? _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8348 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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cheiden wrote: | By coincidence, I play a Yamaha 731 with a 14F4 (that I like just fine) and I just bought my son an ACB Doubler and an ACB 5MDF. I'm really liking his new horn, particularly with the ACB mouthpiece. While I don't consider the sound of the 14F4 to be particularly trombony, using the 5MDF on my 731 definitely change the sound to a more diffuse one in a way I like quite a bit. I need more time on that setup to decide if I'm going to retire the 14F4 or if I want to try a slightly larger ACB piece since the 5 seems a bit smaller than I'm used to. Which size/rim ACB do you think comes closest to the 14F4? |
I didn't find the 14F4 to be trombone-y just kind of plain vanilla.
I've got 3C-ish sizes. The first one I got was a 3CFX (I think), which I thought was a flugel mouthpiece, but was actually a trumpet mouthpiece with a flugel cup. However, it also fits in my Yamaha flugel and plays great. I also have a 3MDF (again, I think) which is pretty similar to the 3CFX, though I might like the 3CFX slightly better.
I don't find them to be diffuse, specifically, just better sounding all-around. Maybe a bit more diffuse as well, but it's like the full sound spectrum is boosted.
I'm not super diameter sensitive, but the 14 width and the ACB 3C size seems to be close enough for me. I also play the Yamaha Shew Jazz (trumpet), Stork 3C, Stork 4D, and Blessing 3C as well on my various trumpets and cornets and they seem all fine, though not specifically identical. If I was more serious, like I was a decade and a half ago, and playing semi-professionally, instead of mostly casually, that might be different. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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geseco Regular Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2019 Posts: 14 Location: Madrid, Spain
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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:59 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for all the info, but... Nobody tried the 16F4? |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8348 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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geseco wrote: | Thank you for all the info, but... Nobody tried the 16F4? |
They're more consistent depth-wise than Bach. The 16F4 isn't going to be significantly deeper than the 14F4.
I've played the trumpet 16C4 and the 14C4. The difference, other than the width, is negligible.
If you're more of a Bach 1 1/2C or Yamaha 16 diameter guy, go for the 16F4. If you're more of a Bach 3C or Yamaha 14 diameter guy, go for the 14F4.
If you want something that's deeper and darker, you'll have to get a non-Yamaha mouthpiece. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8939 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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Crazy Finn wrote: | geseco wrote: | Thank you for all the info, but... Nobody tried the 16F4? |
They're more consistent depth-wise than Bach. The 16F4 isn't going to be significantly deeper than the 14F4. |
While this may be true for the similarly numbered trumpet mouthpieces, the Yamaha catalog specifically says that the 16F4 is deeper than the 14F4.
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/brochure/6/1267056/WA-37R.pdf _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8348 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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geseco wrote: | Thank you for all the info, but... Nobody tried the 16F4? |
Crazy Finn wrote: | They're more consistent depth-wise than Bach. The 16F4 isn't going to be significantly deeper than the 14F4. |
I do see that. But, they're just words. A flugel came into the shop with a 16F4 and I cleaned the mouthpiece. Compared to my 14F4, it didn't look any deeper. I didn't play it, because it was a customer piece, but that's how it looked. It might be technically deeper, but it wasn't significant.
I think the OP wants a darker sounding flugel mouthpiece, and sees the 16F4 as the ticket compared to the 14F4. While I haven't played on it, I'm going to guess that at most it's very slightly darker, if at all. Otherwise, he should just play the diameter that suits him better, as most players would.
I simply don't think any of the Yamaha pieces will give him what he's looking for.
Hopefully someone with experience will chime in, but in the meantime, that's my couple of cents.
Honestly, they're not that expensive. Buy both, try them and you'll see. Again, my guess is that the diameter that is better for him will feel better and they'll sound pretty much the same. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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austincustombrass Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2018 Posts: 246 Location: Kansas City, MO
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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cheiden wrote: | Crazy Finn wrote: | Richard III wrote: | Not what you want to hear, maybe, but Yamaha flugelhorn mouthpieces make my Adams sound too trombony. For me, Curry makes a much better mouthpiece and the choices allow for fine tuning of the sound and response. |
I don't have an Adams, I have a Yamaha 731. I got a 14F4 because I knew it would fit. It was fine. Later a got a few ACB flugel pieces and my 14F4 was immediately relegated to loaner/tester tier. It was literally like those pieces turned on the switch for that flugel, it was night and day. |
By coincidence, I play a Yamaha 731 with a 14F4 (that I like just fine) and I just bought my son an ACB Doubler and an ACB 5MDF. I'm really liking his new horn, particularly with the ACB mouthpiece. While I don't consider the sound of the 14F4 to be particularly trombony, using the 5MDF on my 731 definitely change the sound to a more diffuse one in a way I like quite a bit. I need more time on that setup to decide if I'm going to retire the 14F4 or if I want to try a slightly larger ACB piece since the 5 seems a bit smaller than I'm used to. Which size/rim ACB do you think comes closest to the 14F4? |
Our Ta2 or MV3 rim will be the closest for you. Email us at mpcsales@austincustombrass.com and we can help you out.
-Team ACB _________________ As of 1/1/2022 ACB will no longer post online here nor monitor TH.
It's a shame how far this forum has fallen. If you need us call 816-410-0826 or email.
Cool Links here:
https://linktr.ee/austincustombrass |
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