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spitvalve Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 Posts: 2174 Location: Little Elm, TX
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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dershem wrote: |
I have been thinking about doing that, but ...
An old friend had a trumpet made into a lamp, and the 2nd valve was the switch. I won't build one until I can figure out how to do that.
Ideas? |
Been pondering that myself. It would be really cool. _________________ Bryan Fields
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12679 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: horns |
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CalicchioMan wrote: | Amen James!
Scott Wiltfang |
With all due respect to a top level and highly respected brass technician and while the answer is technically correct and sufficient for those at his level, it really doesn’t add much to the conversation for us mere mortals.
Although, if James were to share what he knows, or if one of us lazy butts researched and collated what he has already shared, it would probably need a couple of volumes to contain it all.
Please be assured that I highly value James’ participation in this forum. |
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jmock Regular Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2021 Posts: 31
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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There have been some great responses on this thread and I appreciate them all. _________________ Kanstul 1500
GR WB Classic mouthpiece |
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deleted_user_687c31b New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:40 am Post subject: |
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dershem wrote: |
I have been thinking about doing that, but ...
An old friend had a trumpet made into a lamp, and the 2nd valve was the switch. I won't build one until I can figure out how to do that.
Ideas? |
You may need a switch like this one:
https://lumico.be/shop/diverse/schakelaars/snoerschakelaar-wit-drukknop-wit-1-polig/
which turns both on and off by pushing it in. |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7013 Location: AZ
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:32 am Post subject: |
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This has been a good thread, so far. Maybe, we should do a sister thread called, "What makes a great horn?"
I have two or three things to add:
1) I used to own a 1976 Benge 5X that I thought was the bomb and it was in many respects. When I finally had Kanstul refit the valve pistons and slides and Flip Oakes had performed his Total Enhancement and valve alignment on it, it was the best it could be. Also, I had purchased some Reeves Sleeves to dial in the gap of a few of my favorite mouthpieces.
Still, that particular trumpet had one flaw. It could not respond to light articulation at low dynamics in order to begin the first note in a phrase. It needed to be "kick started" or it simply refused to generate a standing wave. I asked Byron Autrey about it and he didn't have an answer other than some individual bells are not as sensitive as others.
That Benge was fantastic for outdoor or arena playing and had blockbuster projection, to be sure. It was no good for small ensemble work, though.
2) A friend had brought both a Kanstul 700 and a Getzen 700 to a rehearsal at my church. He was sharing them with my friend, Rex Merriweather, during a break. I heard Rex demonstrate how the Getzen would lose resonance on certain notes of the scale, whereas the Kanstul would resonate consistently across its whole range.
I don't have any idea why the Getzen was like that. It may have had worn valve casings or valve alignment issues. I only know that it was apparent when Rex pointed out the inconsistencies.
It reminded me of another friend who plays violin professionally. He shared his experience of going to a high-end instrument retailer, convincing him to bring out a few "good instruments." Think $50K-$100K+ violins. It was evenness of resonance through every note and the richness of sound that made one violin worth more than another.
These experiences taught me a little more about listening than I had considered before. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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JoseLindE4 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 791
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:09 am Post subject: |
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Regarding quality of finish and greatness to the horn, my favorite and best playing horn that I own is an early 60s Mount Vernon Bach Bb. The horn responds so beautifully to the sound in my head in pretty much any setting. It also has several noticeable blobs of solder inside the slides. I could have it fixed, but I’m afraid of losing that magic. Trumpets are weird. |
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PMonteiro Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2020 Posts: 130 Location: Hudson Valley
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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In my experience lower-quality horns tend to blow much tighter. Mouthpiece receiver problems (either wobbling or getting stuck) are also common. _________________ YTR-6335HSII
YTR-2320
Accord in C |
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etc-etc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6200
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Given that trumpets are made from brass, that might be not such a great idea. Has there ever been an accident where a trumpet turned into a lamp had the the hot wire come into contact with the lamp/trumpet body? |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7013 Location: AZ
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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etc-etc wrote: |
Given that trumpets are made from brass, that might be not such a great idea. Has there ever been an accident where a trumpet turned into a lamp had the the hot wire come into contact with the lamp/trumpet body? |
Have you ever seen a brass lamp that was not a trumpet? Or a metal lamp? Most of them are. There are basic rules for wiring any fixture. Obey those principles and all will be well. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12679 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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etc-etc wrote: |
Given that trumpets are made from brass, that might be not such a great idea. Has there ever been an accident where a trumpet turned into a lamp had the the hot wire come into contact with the lamp/trumpet body? |
Sure, hence the term “killer solo”. |
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deleted_user_687c31b New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:29 am Post subject: |
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etc-etc wrote: | Given that trumpets are made from brass, that might be not such a great idea. |
Theoretically you could use the valve to close the circuit but you shouldn't do so, the switch is a safer option. You connect the switch to the wire as normal, and place it in the valve casing. Both the switch, the wires and the connection should be insulated. At no point should there be any exposed wires, and if you don't know how to achive that, then the answer is that you shouldn't attempt it.
Also, it'll require sawing off a part of the valve to make room for the switch, so make sure you only use it on those cheap junk horns that don't deserve the label 'trumpet' to begin with.
etc-etc wrote: | Has there ever been an accident where a trumpet turned into a lamp had the the hot wire come into contact with the lamp/trumpet body? |
That's a question best asked in this thread. |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3332 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:01 am Post subject: |
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dershem wrote: | ... An old friend had a trumpet made into a lamp, and the 2nd valve was the switch. I won't build one until I can figure out how to do that.
Ideas? |
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Tinkering such as that is certainly possible using a small push-switch. But it would likely involve some careful wiring and care for good insulation. NO electrical contact with the metal of the horn itself. Instead of using the actual 2nd valve piston, I'd use the STEM and BUTTON and attach to a suitable size piece of wood dowel for inside the casing. Making a 'fake piston' for the 1st valve might allow the wiring to go in through the bell, with no wiring exposed otherwise. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2087 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:38 am Post subject: |
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Maybe it’s just me but while I like trumpets I find the idea of a trumpet lamp rather awkward. There are people over here who try to sell them through the usual marketplaces and I always find the looks quite irritating. I’d rather have a real nice lamp. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Klier, (Frate or Curry) |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12679 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:46 am Post subject: |
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JayKosta wrote: | dershem wrote: | ... An old friend had a trumpet made into a lamp, and the 2nd valve was the switch. I won't build one until I can figure out how to do that.
Ideas? |
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Tinkering such as that is certainly possible using a small push-switch. But it would likely involve some careful wiring and care for good insulation. NO electrical contact with the metal of the horn itself. Instead of using the actual 2nd valve piston, I'd use the STEM and BUTTON and attach to a suitable size piece of wood dowel for inside the casing. Making a 'fake piston' for the 1st valve might allow the wiring to go in through the bell, with no wiring exposed otherwise. |
A delrin rod would probably work better than wood.
I am not arguing but I don’t understand the last sentence in your post. Why would the first valve need to be replaced? The wire should just follow the same path as the airflow used when playing an open, all pistons up, note. Following that path the wire can go from leadpipe to bell uninterrupted or exposed. |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3332 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:10 am Post subject: |
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LittleRusty wrote: | ... Why would the first valve need to be replaced? The wire should just follow the same path as the airflow used when playing an open, all pistons up, note. Following that path the wire can go from leadpipe to bell uninterrupted or exposed. |
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Yes, derlin or other 'plastic' would work fine.
Doing the 1st valve modification would probably make 'snaking' the wiring easier because of better visibility and additional working-room of not having the piston in the casing. I'm thinking about the use of forceps & probes via the bottom of the valve casing.
But yes, it certainly could be done with the piston in place - but not as easily for me. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8344 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Brassnose wrote: | Maybe it’s just me but while I like trumpets I find the idea of a trumpet lamp rather awkward. There are people over here who try to sell them through the usual marketplaces and I always find the looks quite irritating. I’d rather have a real nice lamp. |
I'm kind of with you on that. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12679 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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Crazy Finn wrote: | Brassnose wrote: | Maybe it’s just me but while I like trumpets I find the idea of a trumpet lamp rather awkward. There are people over here who try to sell them through the usual marketplaces and I always find the looks quite irritating. I’d rather have a real nice lamp. |
I'm kind of with you on that. |
Me three. |
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deleted_user_687c31b New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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Brassnose wrote: | Maybe it’s just me but while I like trumpets I find the idea of a trumpet lamp rather awkward. |
4th. The only reason I suggested a way to make the light switch was because the topic was Chinese tlo's, not actual trumpets. I can't imagine how many decent instruments have been destroyed by people who don't even know that not every instrument is called a clarinet. |
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