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Trumpetingbynurture Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Posts: 898
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2021 4:08 pm Post subject: Trumpet mouthpiece, french horn rim |
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I known this is an odd question but are there mouthpieces around that have that super thin, very round french horn type rim? I recently started learning french horn and am finding to my surprise that I feel more comfortable and secure on a french horn mouthpiece. Yes, if I leave it on my face too long it will start to dig in, but at the same time, I feel like I need less mouthpiece pressure while actually playing.
Actually, I kind of feel a lot more comfortable playing horn in general, even though it's still early days.
Anyway... Ideas? |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2021 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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Dangerous question. I fell in love again with horn. Love the mouthpieces and all the choices. Getting something like that for trumpet means a skeletonized mouthpiece. Very low mass is what you are looking for. I've looked and have found very little. I'll be following your search.
There are vintage mouthpieces that are similar, but that means a whole lot of Ebay buying and trying and time. _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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Dave CCM/SSO Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2015 Posts: 145 Location: Cincinnati
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2021 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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Matt Frost at Frost Custom Brass can make you a mouthpiece with any rim you want, in any diameter you want. Check him out! _________________ Dave
Springfield Symphony Orchestra (OH)
- www.springfieldsym.org
Seven Hills Brass
- http://www.facebook.com/sevenhillsbrass |
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 1021 Location: East Asia
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2021 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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It may be the rim or mouthpiece, but honestly it is probably the instrument (trumpet vs french horn). I find pretty much every larger instrument (trombone, flugelhorn, etc.) a lot easier on the embouchure, and my understanding is this relates to bore size, volume, etc. There are definitely quite thin type mouthpieces and you could also do the adapter thing (play a french horn piece on trumpet). I think you're going to find the challenge is the instrument. |
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Trumpetingbynurture Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Posts: 898
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2021 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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Richard III wrote: | Dangerous question. I fell in love again with horn. Love the mouthpieces and all the choices. Getting something like that for trumpet means a skeletonized mouthpiece. Very low mass is what you are looking for. I've looked and have found very little. I'll be following your search.
There are vintage mouthpieces that are similar, but that means a whole lot of Ebay buying and trying and time. |
The closest I've come is the marcink CG personal, but even that one seems a bit wider than a horn rim.
There's also the Marcink Anchor Grip but I haven't tried on of those |
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chapahi Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2005 Posts: 1467 Location: Stuttgart, Germany
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Posted: Tue May 25, 2021 1:06 am Post subject: |
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I've heard that Horst Fischer, a legendary German trumpet player, had a french horn rim (some say hunting horn rim) made into a trumpet mouthpiece. It probably was a shallow cup as he was notably a high note specialist. _________________ Sima, Kanstul 1525 Flugel and Kanstul pocket trumpet. Olds Super |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3310 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Tue May 25, 2021 5:22 am Post subject: |
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French horn mpc rims typically have a larger inner diameter than trpt mpc. And the 'high notes' on FH are of lower pitch than trpt (so you might be using less rim pressure).
The typical FH mpc position is different than trpt - FH often has mpc much higher on the upper lip.
Another item/concern is that the usually desired 'sound quality' of FH is much different than trpt - it is usually a mistake to strive for a 'trpt-like' sound from a FH.
If you want to play high, fast, loud -> trpt
low and loud -> t-bone
sound really good -> FH _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Tue May 25, 2021 6:59 am Post subject: |
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Trumpetingbynurture wrote: | Richard III wrote: | Dangerous question. I fell in love again with horn. Love the mouthpieces and all the choices. Getting something like that for trumpet means a skeletonized mouthpiece. Very low mass is what you are looking for. I've looked and have found very little. I'll be following your search.
There are vintage mouthpieces that are similar, but that means a whole lot of Ebay buying and trying and time. |
The closest I've come is the marcink CG personal, but even that one seems a bit wider than a horn rim.
There's also the Marcink Anchor Grip but I haven't tried on of those |
The Marcinkiewicz also has a higher alpha angle. One of the great things about horn mouthpieces is that steep drop into the cup. _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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Johnny-Highnote Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 264 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue May 25, 2021 8:08 am Post subject: |
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Maybe try a verry shallow FH mpc (bore Size not bigger than 4mm) with Adapter _________________ Greatings from Germany
Dennis
38b "Frankenconn" with Bauerfeind Valve block/ Yamaha 6345G /Yamaha 631/Courtois 154G / Curry+Klier 1,5 mpc`s |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue May 25, 2021 8:26 am Post subject: |
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It's an intriguing notion. But as a fellow French horn doubler, I strongly suspect that your impressions are not so much to do with the mouthpiece as with the instrument.
I too notice that I can play the horn with relatively less effort and have MUCH better endurance and (relative) range on it. If I could translate any fraction of that to the trumpet I'd be in hog heaven. Let me know if you find out how. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Tue May 25, 2021 9:49 am Post subject: |
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cheiden wrote: | It's an intriguing notion. But as a fellow French horn doubler, I strongly suspect that your impressions are not so much to do with the mouthpiece as with the instrument.
I too notice that I can play the horn with relatively less effort and have MUCH better endurance and (relative) range on it. If I could translate any fraction of that to the trumpet I'd be in hog heaven. Let me know if you find out how. |
Early cornet with early cornet mouthpiece. The mouthpieces were very narrow rim paired with a deep V cup. That paired with a small bore cornet makes playing a way different experience.
Also, I've tried trumpet with french horn mouthpiece and adapter. Awful in every way. _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue May 25, 2021 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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Richard III wrote: | cheiden wrote: | It's an intriguing notion. But as a fellow French horn doubler, I strongly suspect that your impressions are not so much to do with the mouthpiece as with the instrument.
I too notice that I can play the horn with relatively less effort and have MUCH better endurance and (relative) range on it. If I could translate any fraction of that to the trumpet I'd be in hog heaven. Let me know if you find out how. |
Early cornet with early cornet mouthpiece. The mouthpieces were very narrow rim paired with a deep V cup. That paired with a small bore cornet makes playing a way different experience.
Also, I've tried trumpet with french horn mouthpiece and adapter. Awful in every way. |
I'm not doubting that there may be trumpet/cornet mouthpieces that may more closely approximate that of a typical French horn. What I'm suspecting is that it won't bring any of the perceived advantages of the horn to the trumpet. The blow of the two instruments is much much different. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1833 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Schilke makes a few stock mouthpieces with a #2 rim - different diameters. Why not try them first before having a custom rim made.
What mouthpiece are you currently using?
I went the opposite route - had a french horn mouthpiece made with a trumpet rim. |
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romajore Regular Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2001 Posts: 78
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Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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I double on French horn, alto horn, mellophonium and mellophone. All are easier on the chops than the trumpet, but I don’t think it has much to do with the mouthpiece. If I remember, no promises these days, the Curry vintage cornet (VC) mouthpiece has a thinner, rounder rim and more v shaped cup.
Best wishes in your search. |
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homebilly Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2010 Posts: 2198 Location: Venice, CA & Paris, France
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Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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CG Personal _________________ ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1833 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:45 am Post subject: |
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homebilly wrote: | CG Personal |
Sorry - I missed that in your above post.
It's a tad larger in diameter with a smaller V cup - but the Bach 5MV.
Then maybe the Schilke 16 C2 - bigger diameter - smaller cup.
Check it on the old Kanstul Comparator
http://www.kanstul.com/MPcompare/MouthpieceComparator.html |
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