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Choosing a C Cornet


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trumpet56
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:20 am    Post subject: Choosing a C Cornet Reply with quote

I am looking at purchasing a C Cornet. It would need to be a versatile horn to fit into a Orchestral. Jazz and Brass Band setting (yes I love to transpose). Cornets in the running are Getzen and Carol? Anybody out there have experience with either horns?
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AWOL
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Austin Custom Brass has a Getzen in stock.
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nltrumpet
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve played one of the Yamaha C cornets before. Tons of fun and efficient, but they bear less resemblance to an “authentic” cornet sound.

Also played on an old, presumably customized Bach C cornet. The one I tried was kind of a dog.

My undergrad had a Bill Pfund C cornet in its arsenal. The mouthpiece receiver was finicky, only taking his line of C cornet pieces. Neither of the two in the case fit my face well, so I can’t give an accurate assessment of the horn itself.

Also played on a Schilke C cornet. Pretty nice little horn, also a unique receiver, but Schilke cornet pieces are more commonplace.

Though I’ve heard generally good things about both the Getzen and Carol C cornets, I haven’t actually played either one.

One thing I’d consider regarding your search is blending, specifically when you mentioned brass band. Transposing parts is all fine and good, but you’ll have a much easier time fitting into a BB cornet section sound with a Bb cornet. My 2c
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oxleyk
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The brass bands I'm familiar with would require a Bb no matter how much you like transposing.
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royjohn
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to take the "I love to transpose" comment with a grain of salt if one is seeking a C cornet. There is so much more choice in the Bb realm and a Bb would work better in the BBB and prolly the jazz world, too. In the orchestra there isn't much call for cornet, is there? So to me OP's seeking a C cornet seems rather quixotic, but what do I know? As they say, it's a free country. Whatever floats your boat.
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Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
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Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .
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MalinTrumpet
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:45 pm    Post subject: C cornets Reply with quote

Getzen.

LCM
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trpt4him
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want it for brass band as a secondary instrument, that's fine, I'm sure it will make some parts easier. I can almost guarantee you will start to hate it as a primary brass band instrument when the 16th note runs start in the key of, say, concert Eb, Db, or Bb.
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benlewis
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have owned both the Getzen and the Carol Brass horns, but not at the same time; so I can't really do an A/B comparison. But the Getzen horn played very well, as one would expect from such a quality company. The Carol Brass surprised me with how well it played. I would still have it, but I was able to get one of the Yamaha orchestral C cornets at a price I couldn't resist.

For occasional use, you can't go wrong with either, although the Carol Brass may be a bit less expensive...

HTH

Ben
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trpt2
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:43 pm    Post subject: C cornet Reply with quote

I have owned a Getzen C cornet for probably the last 28 years.
Plays great, has been my primary C cornet in Philly .
I had found, it was greatly improved by using a Dennis Wick mp.
My Bach 1X was Not a good fit.
One thing to keep in mind, after talking with Vince Dimartino, he mentioned that Getzen made Bb slides for this horn. I had No idea.. I ordered a set, and it plays great in both keys.
(I had always found, that when a horn was designed to play in one key, it left a Lot to be desired in the other...) no so much with this one.. it really plays great in both !
Overall, a great cornet. Orchestrally, sometimes I wish I could push it a bit more. But...
Not to get off topic, but in Montreal, we had 2 Bach large bore C cornets, 238 bells..
Far and away the best orchestral cornets I've ever played. Frank Kaderabic had a Mt Vernon 238 C cornet also.. Fantastic horn.
Too bad, they're impossible to find... I've been looking for over 30 years...
Funny story.. I ordered one from Bach when Ted Wagonner had the shop.
6 months later, I got a package in the mail, opened it up, and here we had a Bach C cornet,
With a 239 bell.... sent it back, 6 months later another package came, Bach C cornet,
239 bell. Absolute flamethrower for a cornet. Thus I bought a Getzen..!
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royjohn
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not being a professional musician, I'm a little in the dark about orchestral cornet parts...what often-played orchestral works require a cornet and might need a C cornet rather than a Bb...or Eb? Are there actually many of these?
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Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
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Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .
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stephensontrumpet
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I somewhat recently got my hands on a Thein C cornet. Plays more in tune, sounds great and plays more evenly than many of the other options I’ve tried.
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RETrumpet
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've played the Getzen and the Schilke.

I settled on the Schilke because I liked the response and the timbre.
Intonation on both horns was pretty comparable. Fourth space E is a bit low on my horn so I sometimes use a 1/2 fingering, but that's fairly common for many C horns.

I'd love to try the Thein but nobody needs 2 C cornets...
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patdublc
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the Schilke and it is great horn. But, I think for the amount of time that I need to use C-cornet, I would be just as happy with the Getzen or Yamaha. I've played them all and think they're all good horns.
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I own a Schilke AC2 C cornet. Mine takes the standard cornet mouthpiece, so I am uncertain about earlier comments regarding the mouthpiece receiver on this horn. It is a superb horn, plays well in tune, and has a great sound with the right mouthpiece. I have used a Monette B1-5M cornet, a B1-5FL, a Schilke R - now called the 18, and a Bach 1B. They all work well for different works.

I played (and loved) a Bach C cornet with a 239 C bell. It was a great horn in the time I got to play it. Unfortunately, these are few and far between, and finding one that is in decent used shape is all but impossible without paying the price of a new C trumpet or more. The Schilke is more available in terms of stock and purchasing. I'd love Bach to accept orders for these and for large bore 72 Bb trumpets, but it seems that even an artist can't get those!

I played a Getzen briefly, and I liked it a lot. It plays very similarly to my Eterna Bb cornet, and that's a good thing. The price is reasonable and the workmanship outstanding.

I have not tried others because finding a C cornet on the shelf of a dealer for sale new is a very rare occurrence.

Hope this helps,

AL
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AJCarter
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

royjohn wrote:
Not being a professional musician, I'm a little in the dark about orchestral cornet parts...what often-played orchestral works require a cornet and might need a C cornet rather than a Bb...or Eb? Are there actually many of these?


There are many ballets and other large scale works that call for both trumpet and cornet in the orchestral repertoire. Tchaikovsky probably has the most trumpet/cornet parts. Probably the most famous orchestral cornet parts come from Symphony Fantastique.

There is definitely call for them. A lot of the parts are in A, so playing a Bb cornet can be tedious but doable. Eb would be a nightmare unless the key signature worked, but probably not.
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Subtropical and Subpar
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJCarter wrote:
royjohn wrote:
Not being a professional musician, I'm a little in the dark about orchestral cornet parts...what often-played orchestral works require a cornet and might need a C cornet rather than a Bb...or Eb? Are there actually many of these?


There are many ballets and other large scale works that call for both trumpet and cornet in the orchestral repertoire. Tchaikovsky probably has the most trumpet/cornet parts. Probably the most famous orchestral cornet parts come from Symphony Fantastique.

There is definitely call for them. A lot of the parts are in A, so playing a Bb cornet can be tedious but doable. Eb would be a nightmare unless the key signature worked, but probably not.


Perhaps a stupid question, but if this is the case, why don't manufacturers still make cornets in A or convertible B flat / A as they did around the turn of the 20th century?
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

royjohn wrote:
Not being a professional musician, I'm a little in the dark about orchestral cornet parts...what often-played orchestral works require a cornet and might need a C cornet rather than a Bb...or Eb? Are there actually many of these?


Here are just a few of the indeed many:

Berlioz - Symphonie Fantastique, Chasse Royal et Orage, Harold in Italy
Charbier - Espana
Franck - Symphony in D minor
Prokofiev - Lt. Kiji (cornet soloist)
Tchaikovsky - 1812 Overture, Capriccio Italien, Francesca da Rimini, Manfred Symphony, and more

This list in not exhaustive or complete, just off the top of my head. The cornets are often written with chromatic parts, while the trumpet parts are usually natural (single pitch partials, like a natural trumpet).
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AJCarter
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Subtropical and Subpar wrote:
AJCarter wrote:
royjohn wrote:
Not being a professional musician, I'm a little in the dark about orchestral cornet parts...what often-played orchestral works require a cornet and might need a C cornet rather than a Bb...or Eb? Are there actually many of these?


There are many ballets and other large scale works that call for both trumpet and cornet in the orchestral repertoire. Tchaikovsky probably has the most trumpet/cornet parts. Probably the most famous orchestral cornet parts come from Symphony Fantastique.

There is definitely call for them. A lot of the parts are in A, so playing a Bb cornet can be tedious but doable. Eb would be a nightmare unless the key signature worked, but probably not.


Perhaps a stupid question, but if this is the case, why don't manufacturers still make cornets in A or convertible B flat / A as they did around the turn of the 20th century?


The same reason why trumpets in A aren't made. Just not in fashion. Too much of a compromise for sound, projection, and intonation I would guess. Most convertible horns have one side that is great and one that is abysmal, and this would likely be no different.
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Subtropical and Subpar
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJCarter wrote:
Subtropical and Subpar wrote:
AJCarter wrote:
royjohn wrote:
Not being a professional musician, I'm a little in the dark about orchestral cornet parts...what often-played orchestral works require a cornet and might need a C cornet rather than a Bb...or Eb? Are there actually many of these?


There are many ballets and other large scale works that call for both trumpet and cornet in the orchestral repertoire. Tchaikovsky probably has the most trumpet/cornet parts. Probably the most famous orchestral cornet parts come from Symphony Fantastique.

There is definitely call for them. A lot of the parts are in A, so playing a Bb cornet can be tedious but doable. Eb would be a nightmare unless the key signature worked, but probably not.


Perhaps a stupid question, but if this is the case, why don't manufacturers still make cornets in A or convertible B flat / A as they did around the turn of the 20th century?


The same reason why trumpets in A aren't made. Just not in fashion. Too much of a compromise for sound, projection, and intonation I would guess. Most convertible horns have one side that is great and one that is abysmal, and this would likely be no different.


Ah, I see. That all makes sense, many thanks.
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Tpt_Guy
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Subtropical and Subpar wrote:
AJCarter wrote:
Subtropical and Subpar wrote:


Perhaps a stupid question, but if this is the case, why don't manufacturers still make cornets in A or convertible B flat / A as they did around the turn of the 20th century?


The same reason why trumpets in A aren't made. Just not in fashion. Too much of a compromise for sound, projection, and intonation I would guess. Most convertible horns have one side that is great and one that is abysmal, and this would likely be no different.


Ah, I see. That all makes sense, many thanks.


Schilke makes one. The XA1 can be ordered pitched in A.

https://www.schilkemusic.com/cornets/xa1/

Scroll down and check out the options.
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