New York Phil: To Tape or not To Tape

[no_tone]

I think a good approach to practice for this audition would be to practice as if your were going to do both (tape and live prelim). Take a mock audition evey other day or so and record it. Over the course of a few weeks if you get one recorded audition that really rocks, play if for a few people whoose ears you trust. Ideally these people should be professionals in major orchestras, trumpet players AND non-trumpet players alike. If you get some positive feedback and feel it's your best send it. We have until early April to schedule a live time so that gives us a whole month.

What concerns me about this audition is that they only reimburse travel expenses of those who make it to the finals. If you go and play a live prelim and advance and then return to NYC to play a semi and DONT advance, you have to shell out for 2 trips to NY, yikes. I think the St.Louis Symphony has a similar policy.

Also, I don't see any scheduled dates of Semis and finals. I think if I'd made finals of NYP I'd make evey effort to move my schedule around, but I would still like to have this information up front.

-Steve

[Kevin Good]

I forgot who posed the question, but yes, we frequently do listen to tapes more than once.
We're not trying to pick it apart, but we're frequently in a position of having to eliminate candidates, hopefully to spare them the expense of flying to an audition that they probably won't win. I know it's kind of brutal, but the process is far from ideal and we try to make the best of it.
FWIW, I run a small studio out of my home and among other things, I sometimes get hired to do audition tapes. In those situations, I don't get into the pros and cons of retakes and editing, I just do what they hire me to do. At one point, a few years ago, I was new to digital wave-form editing and was doing a project for a flute player.

Long story short, I didn't keep notes that were as accurate as they might have been and after the recording was done and I was back in the studio to edit, I realized that I did NOT, in fact, have a usable take of a particularly florid run of sixteenth notes. I had several takes where the beginning was good and a few where the ending was good, but NONE where the whole passage was good.
After reading my digidesign manual a bit (no pun intended) I was really knocked out to discover how easy AND convincing it was to edit, that is, to digitally splice, BETWEEN SIXTEENTH NOTES!
The flute player couldn't believe it and if I hadn't done it, I wouldn't believe it either, but after that "hands-on" episode with digital editing technology, I listen to all audition tapes with a more critical ear.

KG

PS With digital editing, you can easily splice "silence" between takes, making it sound as if it were a single live take.

[trombapaul2]

Kevin,

Given your hands on experience with wave-form editing, you now know what
sort of manipulations can be accomplished on a tape, mini-disc, or CD. How,
when you listen to an audition tape, do you determine what has been "tweaked"
and what hasn't?

The last couple of tapes I was required to do, I did with the help of Terry
Herald. We put together a very good representation of my playing without
any extra editing. I wasn't exactly thrilled with my "Ballerina's Dance" but let it
go because it wasn't going to get any better and there was no time left.
Just for grins, he and I sat down and took bits and pieces from the 8 or so
takes I had done and spliced together one seriously kick-a## "Ballerina's
Dance", right down to editing the time between 1/16th notes. It was already
in tune but now it was metronomically perfect, dynamically perfect, even one
fuzzy attack was cleaned up by chopping off the fuzz and lengthening the note
to fill the now dead space. I can't tell you how tempting it was to substitute
that rendition in. If I had, who would really have known the difference and
how? I won't allow myself to do anything like that, but what if...?

Paul

_________________
"NEVER practice...ALWAYS perform" (Bud)

"NEVER look at the trombones...it only encourages them" (R. Strauss)

[ This Message was edited by: trombapaul2 on 2004-03-15 23:10 ]

[trumpjosh]

Other than going after the ethical angle of edited audition tapes, there is another point to consider. The thing to remember is this: they are going to think you sound pretty much like that live. If you get your tape accepted and spend the money/time to go to the audition and bomb out early, what have you really accomplished? If you can't even come close to sounding live like you sound on your tape, then the only person you are really fooling is yourself (if you think you'll win the gig).

This is not meant as a flame towards anyone in particular, just something that needs to be thought about.

[HorneyMikey]

Josh, I totally agree.

Quite a few years ago, a prominant symphony player was being interviewed (I forget who) and he said if you cannot make a great demo tape on two or 3 takes for each excerpt, you have no business auditioning. Even if they do accept your tape, you will show the committee your true ability at the live audition. Use the money you would have spent going to the audition and find a good private teacher.

mike

[kzem]

I think that quote was from Doug Yeo. He has some fantastic advice on his website for all players. I particularly like his section on "How Good is Good Enough?" and "The Difference Between Playing and Practicing"

You can even listen to his tape that he sent in that eventually won him the spot with the Boston Symphony. (Even though it was almost 20 years ago when he won the job)

Check it out:
http://www.yeodoug.com/index.html

Kurt Z

[Kevin Good]

....given the restraints of time and....time....well, you really can't tell if a tape has been edited, IF it's been done well. There are ways of identifying splices, once you've done it thirty or forty BILLION times, but most of what we get is either pretty good or pretty bad. That's the main reason I/we listen to tapes with a more critical ear. While I don't know what Mr.Yeo has said (I will NOT go there), there is a pragmatic reality that looms: once you win the gig, you gotta deliver the goods, so if you can't play an excerpt, you'd be well advised NOT to send a tape that represents your playing in a ficticious way.

This is really NOT rocket science...just business.

KG

[trombapaul2]

I get the feeling I need to clarify something...

I did not send the doctored tape, nor would I. The tape I did send was
quite good, so I was told by the fair number of colleagues I played it for.
The panel also thought it was good as it was accepted by the orchestra
it was sent to. I came very close to advancing to finals with them also
(got called back to play again twice before being eliminated from semis).
I do not believe I'm over-assessing my abilities when I say I can "deliver
the goods" and that the NY spot is not unreachable. I'm a mature enough
player (that means old guy) to know not to fool myself about how I play.

Paul
_________________
"NEVER practice...ALWAYS perform" (Bud)

"NEVER look at the trombones...it only encourages them" (R. Strauss)

"What the hell does sound have to do with music?" (Charles Ives)