Bach Markings

dacman · Veteran Member Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 199 Location: WA

I own a Bb Bach Strad and I am confused about which model it is. There are only two distiguishing markings on the horn:
It says ML on the valve casing, and has the number 72 followed by a "star" on the bell.

I know ML is the bore size, 72 is the bell type, and the "star" means light weight. However, I am not sure if the star means it is a lightweight horn (LT180) or a regular weight horn (180) with a lightweight bell. How can I tell? Also, how do I know which leadpipe is on the horn? According to the Selmer website, it states that the standard leadpipe for a LT180 is 25, expect for the 72 "star." However, it doesn't tell me what leadpipe the 72 "star" has?

Any help would be appretiated.

jophst · Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:48 am Post subject:

I'm pretty sure you have a lightweight body with the lightweight 72* bell.

Also, since there is no marking on the mouthpiece receiver, you have the standard 25 leadpipe.

Horns in Bb that have the reversed leadpipe configuration (LR) have a lightweight body with a normal weight bell unless otherwise noted on the bell (by * or H).

Normally, the 72* Strads would come with a 43 leadpipe or 25O (open) leadpipe. Since yours has no such markings, it is just a plain Jane 25. Nothing wrong with that though ... I own a Raw Brass Strad with a 65* bell and normal 25 leadpipe .. has a regular weight body though. It plays very very nicely for me. It belonged to Trent Austin prior to my acquiring it.

I hope this helps,
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Bb - Yamaha Xeno 8335RGS
Picc - Yamaha 9830 w/PVA
Flugel - Yamaha Shew 6310Z
Laskey's 68MD,68C,PIC,68F,68DB

bgwbold · Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:45 am Post subject:

The 72* is a real interesting horn. I have only played one with a regular weight body, but would like to try one with lightweight body and bell as well. It is a pretty versatile horn, at least with the regular weight body, and not overly bright sounding.

Mike

dacman · Veteran Member Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 199 Location: WA

bgwbold,

How did you know it was a regular weight body with a lightweight bell? How was the horn marked that led you to this conclusion?

bgwbold · Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:40 am Post subject:

In my case, I thought it was original and that they all came that way (reg body, lite bell) until someone corrected me here. I later found that the bell was transplanted onto regular body on mine.

To answer your question, you look at the guage of the metal. Do you have a caliper? To the naked eye, lightweight metal looks about half as thick as regular weight metal. I do not think the slides are even interchangeable between lightweight and regular weight bodies.

I would guess you have a lightweight body and bell, unless yours is special order or was done after the fact like mine was. After the fact, anything goes. You could have a regular weight bell on a lightweight body even.

Mike

p.s. I can confirm my 72* has a reg body since my slides will all fit a regular weight horn. I have a friend with a factory 37* or 43* and his slides will not fit my horn.

[ This Message was edited by: bgwbold on 2004-03-19 11:41 ]

dacman · Veteran Member Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 199 Location: WA

Thanks

dacman · Veteran Member Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 199 Location: WA

So if I indeed have a lightweight body and bell (LT180), then does anybody know what Selmer means by this statement:

"Preferred by players seeking a lively trumpet with quick response. Features
lightweight body and bell, and standard construction #25 mouthpipe (except for
72* bell). Available in three bore sizes (M, ML, L)."

If the LT180 with a 72* does not have the #25 leadpipe, what leadpipe does it have?

[ This Message was edited by: dacman on 2004-03-19 12:35 ]

blasticore · Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:59 am Post subject:

The leadpipe model should be on the hex part of the mouthpiece reciever.
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Chris King
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dacman · Veteran Member Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 199 Location: WA

It doesn't have any marking at all.

bgwbold · Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:05 am Post subject:

Like someone said above, no marking on the receiver means it is a 25 leadpipe.

Mike

nieuwguyski · Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:44 am Post subject:

The standard leadpipe on the LT180-72 is the 25-O.

If you horn is lacquer you can tell whether it's a lightweight by the absence of nickel-silver outer slide tubes. If it's plated, you'll need to compare slide tubes with another ML Bach -- standard weight slides will be too large to fit into a lightweight horn.
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jophst · Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:16 pm Post subject:

Like I said earlier ... it is a lightweight body and lightweight bell.

Selmer is merely stating that the "standard" leadpipe for this combination is not the 25 leadpipe, but either the 43 for silver. or 25-O for lacquer.

Yours having a standard 25 on it sounds kind of strange though ... the 72* may not be the original bell on it. Or, it may be an early horn. I have seen those before.
_________________
Bb - Yamaha Xeno 8335RGS
Picc - Yamaha 9830 w/PVA
Flugel - Yamaha Shew 6310Z
Laskey's 68MD,68C,PIC,68F,68DB

nieuwguyski · Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:18 pm Post subject:

Check the big PDF file about Strads on the Selmer website. It specifically states that the standard leadpipe on the 72 lightweight is the 25-O.
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J. Notso Nieuwguyski

wiseone2 · Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:56 pm Post subject:

jophst · Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:36 pm Post subject:

Thanks John ... it surely does say that. I have owned one with a 43 leadpipe in my experience ... in silver plate.

I believe the Vindabona 72 comes with a 43 leadpipe stock.

A lot of others have had the 72*/43 combination as discussed here:

http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=6574&forum=7

WoodWind/BrassWind is also selling with the 43 option rather than the 25-Open leadpipe:

http://www.wwbw.com/Item/?itemno=22483

And here are some examples of lightweight 72's from Steve Dillard:

http://www.horntrader.com/showpix3.asp?ItemCode=3060 ... with 43 L/P

http://www.horntrader.com/showpix3.asp?ItemCode=3094 .... standard 25 L/P

http://www.horntrader.com/showpix3.asp?ItemCode=3336 ... assuming standard 25 L/P (vintage)

http://www.horntrader.com/showpix3.asp?ItemCode=3264 ... standard 25 L/P (vintage)
_________________
Bb - Yamaha Xeno 8335RGS
Picc - Yamaha 9830 w/PVA
Flugel - Yamaha Shew 6310Z
Laskey's 68MD,68C,PIC,68F,68DB