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improver Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 1455
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:44 am Post subject: Question for trumpet repair guys on here? |
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I have a Bach 37 I love from around 1999 or 2000. One main tuning slide tube cracked and a repair guy replaced the bottom tube with another close but it diesnt blow great. I have a number of other Bach 37s from different periods. Can you use the main tuning slide from another 37 on my main Bach?! |
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Steve Hollahan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Oct 2005 Posts: 519 Location: Charlotte, NC
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:02 am Post subject: T-slide fit |
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In a word - NO.
It's not cheap to buy a slide, SO go to Parts.Conn-Selmer.com amd dial in your part for availability. _________________ Steve Hollahan
Bach 37, 229 C
Yamaha 9620 D-Eb, 741 C, Flugel
Kanstul 900 piccolo trumpet
Sculptured Recrafting Custom Instrument Repair
and Restoration
www.sculpturedrecrafting.com |
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improver Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 1455
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:27 am Post subject: |
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Thx Steve for your reply. Funny thing is I ordered a Bach replacement slide for it a couple years ago from Charlie Melk at which time Charlie warned me it may or may not work. Well, although it fit it didnt blow well. Today I just put the main slide of an old late 70s Bach 37 I have and it blows great. I think it may be an issue of fit. I dont know. There was a guy who used to build Bachs on here. It would be nice to know if the size of the main slide tubes have changed much over the years? Is each horn fitted? |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:29 am Post subject: |
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It wouldn't hurt to try. Just don't force anything. M/K Drawing and Bending has replacement slides in different configurations you could try. |
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improver Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 1455
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:50 am Post subject: |
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Ed, I did try. I put a main slide on from an old late 70s 37 and it blows great. I had previously ordered a replacement slide that fit but didnt blow well. I think it's a matter of fit. |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:28 am Post subject: |
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improver wrote: | Ed, I did try. I put a main slide on from an old late 70s 37 and it blows great. I had previously ordered a replacement slide that fit but didnt blow well. I think it's a matter of fit. |
There are other factors as well: stress in the solder joints, interior solder blobs where the ferrule meets the bow and so forth, all things addressed when a horn is "blueprinted." |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:07 am Post subject: |
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Just a thought, if you have a badly repaired slide and another slide that works well, perhaps you could mail both to a quality shop and have them fix the badly repaired one so it approximates the good one. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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improver Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 1455
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Thx Chieden, that's not a bad idea. What I'm trying to find out is if these main slide tube measurements were uniform throughout Bach's history. Because the late 70s 37 slide I plugged into my 2000 37 blows CDC well, yet the one I ordered new doesnt. |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12664 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: T-slide fit |
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Steve Hollahan wrote: | In a word - NO. |
Steve,
I am wondering if you could elaborate on this answer.
I was curious when I first read your post, but since that post it seems that the OP did try another 37's tuning slide and it worked for him.
Steve Hollahan wrote: | It's not cheap to buy a slide, SO go to Parts.Conn-Selmer.com amd dial in your part for availability. |
Interesting looking at the parts webpage. It shows the Medium Large Bore Tuning Slide Assembly in Silver Plate costs $290.33. It doesn't show the assembly in lacquer though. |
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JoeLoeffler Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 243
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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New Bach main tuning slides seem to be made well and the ones I have tried (maybe 25 in the last few years) play well (with some variation). The slides have remained the same design for many decades (with slight differences in things like waterkeys). The biggest question is what is the actual size of your horn’s tubing… Bach has at different time periods had slightly different tolerances in fit between the inside tube and outside of their drawn tubing. (Some of the worst have been in lightweight horns.) They are generally all within a few thousandths, but sometimes the slide will not go on the horn… (MK Drawing gets around this problem by making their tubing tolerance as wide as possible so that the slide will go in the tightest tubes.)
The slide will likely play its best if there is a good tube fit. Things like tension in the vertical brace, the parallelism of both the tubes on the horn and the slide, and water key screw tension, among other things can definitely effect how a slide plays. |
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JoeLoeffler Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 243
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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New Bach main tuning slides seem to be made well and the ones I have tried (maybe 25 in the last few years) play well (with some variation). The slides have remained the same design for many decades (with slight differences in things like waterkeys). The biggest question is what is the actual size of your horn’s tubing… Bach has at different time periods had slightly different tolerances in fit between the inside tube and outside of their drawn tubing. (Some of the worst have been in lightweight horns.) They are generally all within a few thousandths, but sometimes the slide will not go on the horn… (MK Drawing gets around this problem by making their tubing tolerance as wide as possible so that the slide will go in the tightest tubes.)
The slide will likely play its best if there is a good tube fit. Things like tension in the vertical brace, the parallelism of both the tubes on the horn and the slide, and water key screw tension, among other things can definitely effect how a slide plays. |
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JonathanM Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2018 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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Dave Miller, a TH member in the Shreveport, La., and a brass tech (and all around great guy, too), has a line of tuning slides for Strads, too. I'll pm his email to you. Great thread and love the contributions; good stuff to know.
By the way, your Strad ad is causing me anxiety... Some great prices. _________________ Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3636 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Getting a tuning slide to work well with the horn is a deliberate process. If you order an assembly and it works great, consider yourself lucky.
What I have often done is remove the crook and try others until it's where I think it plays better. The differences can be dramatic.
I wish I could tell you it's easy. but it ain't necessarily so...
-Lionel _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3308 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:45 am Post subject: |
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Regarding the 'fit' of the tubing - there might be a need for some 'hand fitting' to get the best fit - polishing, ID / OD rounding, light sanding, etc.
Not every tube is perfectly round. ID/OD diameters can vary a few ten-thousandths.
Then there's parallel alignment, tension, etc.
Expecting an off-the-shelf replacement to function exactly as the original is unrealistic. The expectation should be that it is adequate, beyond that you would need a good craftsman to do fine adjustments. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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improver Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 1455
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Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:44 am Post subject: |
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Jonathan thanks for the info |
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improver Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 1455
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Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:53 am Post subject: |
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You brass. Thx. I think the most surprising thing I've found out over the last few years is water key tension and the main slide tubes can change the way the horn plays. Here is my problem. I'm not sure what to do. The slide I put in from the other 37 isnt quite cutting it. The slide that goes with my favorite horn has had the bottom tube replaced but it's not a Bach tube. The blow isnt quite right. Should i send it to somebody to have him put new tubes on the slide, or get another slide. A few years ago I ordered a new Bach tuning slide but it isnt a good match? |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3636 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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improver wrote: | You brass. Thx. I think the most surprising thing I've found out over the last few years is water key tension and the main slide tubes can change the way the horn plays. Here is my problem. I'm not sure what to do. The slide I put in from the other 37 isnt quite cutting it. The slide that goes with my favorite horn has had the bottom tube replaced but it's not a Bach tube. The blow isnt quite right. Should i send it to somebody to have him put new tubes on the slide, or get another slide. A few years ago I ordered a new Bach tuning slide but it isnt a good match? |
I think a qualified repair person should look at the horn and consult with you about it. Too many variables in your situation to come up w/a pat answer.
-Lionel _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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etc-etc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6190
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Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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The tube that cracked might have been adding / creating the character for your horn, at least, before it cracked. Is there an option to fill the cracked tube with solder (assuming it did not get thrown out)? Or, fill and reverse the tube? |
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