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improver Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 1456
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:17 pm Post subject: Opinions on new Bachs? |
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Does anyone here own a new Bach in the last few years? If so your opinions? Any changes? |
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agroovin48 Regular Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2014 Posts: 94 Location: Goodyear, Arizona
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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I have a Bach LR19043B Mariachi that I bought two years ago. It is a fantastic trumpet in every way. It plays and sounds awesome; the lead pipe tuning slide combination is spot on for me. Perfect workmanship, great valves, beautiful case and the price was right because it had no fancy engraving. The last Bach I had was a 180S43 that i bought new in around 1977 or 1978. It was a great horn and this one is every bit as good, if not better. _________________ agroovin48
Alan Cahill
1933 Conn Victor 80A Cornet
King Legend 2070
Adams A1V2 |
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improver Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 1456
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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Thx for your input. Great info. |
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Bryant Jordan Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2015 Posts: 410 Location: Utah, USA
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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They’re still good, but be careful, they’re not very consistent from horn to horn within a specific model. |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2334 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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There have been a number of changes at the "shop" since '04 or so.. the simple answer is yes.. a recommitment to quality over quantity. Plus, some new designed with nods to old practices and input from top craftsman.
My experience at the factory in 2018 was awesome and quite the learning experience. I have demo'd a large number of new Bachs then and since, various models and keys.. I find them to be quite consistent in play and build.
It is still an art, with the amount of manual labor with each instrument, there is inevitably some variation.
Additionally, with computer guided cutting machines, mouthpiece variations have drastically diminished. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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Winghorn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 2164 Location: Olympia, Washington
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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Bryant Jordan wrote: | They’re still good, but be careful, they’re not very consistent from horn to horn within a specific model. |
Well, that's good. You'll have more choices within a given model range to find that perfect (for you) horn!
As long as trumpet bells are hand spun and horns are hand assembled, no two will ever be exactly alike. This goes for any trumpet builder, not just Bach. |
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dr_trumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 Posts: 2533 Location: Cope, IN
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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Horn to horn, they are the most excellent set of horns I've ever seen from Bach, including the "fabled" eras from the past. All of us have played trumpets that may not work for us, but I find few horns now that I would not share with a student or friend. I have not always been able to say that, and I am thrilled that one can find great horns with the "Bach sound".
NOTE: I may be biased in that I endorse Bach trumpets, but the truth is I won't endorse what I won't play. _________________ Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music
Last edited by dr_trumpet on Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Goby Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Posts: 652
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Winghorn wrote: |
As long as trumpet bells are hand spun and horns are hand assembled, no two will ever be exactly alike. This goes for any trumpet builder, not just Bach. |
This is definitely true, although there are a number of things that can detract from the quality of an instrument, even when hand-made, like solder blobs inside the tubing, improper seal of solder joints, assembly under tension, misaligned valves, etc.
A good horn made by hand is one that has as few of the detractors as possible. Look at the amount of time spent on a Bach compared to a Schilke, Bach (and other factories) uses de-leading baths (acid baths) to clean up solder internally, while Schilke has their builders scrape the excess solder out of joints by hand (at least, they used to when Reynold was in charge). The acid bath will accelerate the development of red rot and can sometimes eat away too much solder and cause the joint to leak. Cleaning up the inside by hand takes a lot more time and patience, but results in a higher quality finished product. Compare the time it takes to make a Schilke to the time spent making a Monette, with slide alignment double and triple checked, braces checked one by one and moved to maximize resonance and playability, custom engravings, client meetings/consultations, tension-free assembly, 100 hours played on the horn before delivery so there is no break-in period, custom mouthpiece selections, and lapidary work on the buttons encased in a clear layer of optical quartz to protect the inlay from wear or deterioration. Both Schilke and Monette are fantastic, but one spends a lot more time chasing diminishing returns.
The true spirit of hand-made is "each horn has it's own personality", not, "this one sounds amazing, and this other one sounds like a goose"
Back to the topic at hand, new Bachs are awesome, especially the 190 series. The few examples I've tried/owned have all been excellent horns. I still think the 180 series is overpriced considering the alternatives available from some other makers, even in the US, but it's still a Bach, and will get the job done if you need it to. There are a few new Bach designs that I believe are going to be released soon (Rashawn Ross signature model 19072V has already been leaked on their instagram ) |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2047 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:45 am Post subject: |
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I own a Bach 19037 and a 19043, both made within the past few years. In terms of fit, finish and mechanical action, they are impeccable. As for how they play, that is more subjective, but they are two of the finest horns I have ever played. |
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improver Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 1456
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:20 am Post subject: |
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I just bought a 2020 customized 37 from Josh Landress and it plays beautifully. It has the receiver gap optimization, rounded bell bow, valve alignment, and an antiqued finish with brushed highlights. It plays beautifully. I finally said to myself I'm done playing old horns. The only old horns im keeping are my NY Bach and 46 Committee. I've got a number of older 37s that play well I'm selling. |
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Bryant Jordan Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2015 Posts: 410 Location: Utah, USA
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:48 am Post subject: |
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Winghorn wrote: | Bryant Jordan wrote: | They’re still good, but be careful, they’re not very consistent from horn to horn within a specific model. |
Well, that's good. You'll have more choices within a given model range to find that perfect (for you) horn!
As long as trumpet bells are hand spun and horns are hand assembled, no two will ever be exactly alike. This goes for any trumpet builder, not just Bach. |
Modern Bach tend to be a bit more inconsistent than other brands within a certain model range, at least in my experience. |
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Winghorn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 2164 Location: Olympia, Washington
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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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You know, I don't give a rip about how many hours it takes to build a given horn or how the solder work is cleaned up, etc., etc..
I buy a horn based on how it plays, not how it looks. And over the years, Bach instruments have usually played and sounded the best for me.
Red rot from an acid bath? I have always kept my instruments clean, well oiled and well greased and I have never had a problem with red rot.
Tension-free build? Who cares, if a horn is a superb player? All these tweaks and extra finish work may sound impressive to the lay person, but accomplished players purchase instruments based on how they play not just on their design specs or appearance.
I played a Schilke trumpet for about 12 years (B1 model) and a Monette trumpet (995 model) for around 15. Both were wonderful instruments, but they were not automatically better than a good Bach Strad. In fact, I ultimately went back to Bach after the above ownership experiences.
I do not currently play a Bach, using instead a Kanstul-built Doc Severinsen Destino 5* trumpet in gold plate. I just like how it plays, even though the finish exhibits a few file marks that were left rough.
But if I ever decide to try a different trumpet, a Bach Stradivarious will certainly be on my list! |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2441
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Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:39 am Post subject: |
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Winghorn wrote: | I do not currently play a Bach, using instead a Kanstul-built Doc Severinsen Destino 5* trumpet in gold plate. I just like how it plays, even though the finish exhibits a few file marks that were left rough. |
This caught my eye - and not just because I spent the last couple days working on a bio piece regarding Byron Autrey. I was lucky enough to obtain one of the last Austin Winds Stage470LT models built by Kanstul. I checked out 3, and it was the one that really responded in my hands. It was also the one we dubbed "the ugly one" because of the terrible finish prep. Kanstul had some serious QC issues.
But, as you point out, if you are going to play the horn and not just look at it, what matters is how it plays! _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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furcifer Veteran Member
Joined: 24 May 2014 Posts: 155 Location: Texas
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Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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I was looking to retire my old 1980 180ST37, and specifically tried a few examples of the LT190L1B large bore "Commercial" for the type of Lead playing I do so much more of now, and *almost* pulled the trigger on one. After trying some 35 other models/brands in that same category of design intentions, I ultimately liked the Stomvi S3 Big Bell even better. But the three Bach specimens I tested were all very consistent and fantastic horns. Now, the Stomvi comes with a precision valve alignment before it leaves StomviUSA in CA, and maybe that is what makes for the amazing response of the S3 that finally sold me on another .459 bore horn that also happens to be well over a thousand bucks cheaper than the Bach. But the large-bore Bach Commercial was still pretty close. It would lock up 6 to 7 rings on my strobe tuner on just about every note.
Now, with any individual horn I get my hands on, (I'm also a local independent rep for a school horn manufacturer) I'm going to bore-scope it and look for unchamfered metal around the water key holes on the inside, solder blobs, pinholes at joints, etc. You can get these little bore scopes for your cell phone now on the cheap, and they come in handy for lots of things. There are always going to be a few little outliers that squeak past quality control. But the most important thing is that the individual horn plays great for the individual player that bought it - and there are a ton more variables there to account for than will ever be found between just about any two specimens of the same model Bach trumpet. So, the odds are still way in the player's favor, no doubt. _________________ Stomvi S3 Big Bell -2018
Bach 180ST37 -'80
Benge CG -'78
Buescher LP 9 -1926
Getzen 896S-4 flugel -'86
Conn 18H bone -'64
Getzen M2003E Bb/G bugle
Getzen Titleist 2v soprano G -'79
King K-50 G mellophone
Henri Gautier Cornet C/Bb/A -1919 |
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 725 Location: SE US
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Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:53 am Post subject: |
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After much research, comparison and trial, I bought a new Bach New York 7 in 2016. It has been my most often player from day one! There have been zero problems, complaints, or shortcomings. Favourite horn? Depends on the current requirements, but If I could only have one it would be the Bach! Quality is at least as good as my workhorse '76 CL 229/25A!
Mike _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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onlyson Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Posts: 225 Location: Bartlett, Illinois
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Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:05 am Post subject: |
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I've told this story here before but this thread has brought back some memories. Mostly painful ones. I attended a trumpet hang a few years back, likely right after the Bach 190 series came out. There was a Bach rep there and he had the new 50th Anniversary Bb with him. It was awesome. The best horn I ever played. I loved everything about it. The sound, the ease of play, the classic lacquered Bach look. I should have begged him to buy THAT particular horn.
Anyways I ordered one online about a month later. It was awful. It barely had the same sound and the blow was so tight it actually caused me neck pain. I sent it back and they had Bach send me another direct from the factory. That one was worse. Bad blow AND bad sound. I gave up and got my money back.
A couple of years later I bought one used here on TH with a return policy agreed on before hand. Same experience and I sent it back. A few months go by and a Bach rep has a 50th Anniversary horn at a local jazz concert/clinic I attended. Played a few notes and right away I knew it was just as bad. Then lastly I visited a local shop about 30 miles away and played many Bachs. The 50th which still didn't impress me and also the Artisan. The Mariachi though I kind of liked.
So what was the deal? Was that first 50th I tried some kind of unicorn? Was I just having a really good chops day and it just clicked? The world may never know. _________________ Del Quadro Grizzly
Yamaha 9335CH
1951 Martin Committee Deluxe #3 Bore
ACB Coppernicus
Couesnon Flugel
Carol Pocket Trumpet |
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Winghorn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 2164 Location: Olympia, Washington
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Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 10:57 am Post subject: |
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An instrument that suits one player may not suit another. I know I am stating the obvious, but it seems that some players lose sight of this and pronounce a horn as bad just because they personally don't care for it.
Opinions about how a brand or model of trumpet plays and sounds are fun to read, but are of limited value if we know nothing about the playing ability or experience level of the poster offering the opinion.
Threads like this can be helpful in getting a general idea about a trumpet being considered, but are no substitute for actually playing the instrument before purchase. (I know I am once again stating the obvious!)
Steve |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581
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Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Winghorn wrote: | An instrument that suits one player may not suit another. I know I am stating the obvious, but it seems that some players lose sight of this and pronounce a horn as bad just because they personally don't care for it.
Opinions about how a brand or model of trumpet plays and sounds are fun to read, but are of limited value if we know nothing about the playing ability or experience level of the poster offering the opinion.
Threads like this can be helpful in getting a general idea about a trumpet being considered, but are no substitute for actually playing the instrument before purchase. (I know I am once again stating the obvious!)
Steve |
Threads like this aren't even valid for a general idea about the playing characteristics of a trumpet because there are too many individual variables/perceptions involved. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12664 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Winghorn wrote: | Bryant Jordan wrote: | They’re still good, but be careful, they’re not very consistent from horn to horn within a specific model. |
Well, that's good. You'll have more choices within a given model range to find that perfect (for you) horn! |
Dick Akright once expressed this exact opinion to me.
Then there are stories like OnlySon’s that prove Bach’s consistency is better, since all the Bach’s he tried, except one, didn’t work for him. |
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Winghorn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 2164 Location: Olympia, Washington
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Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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