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Changing mouthpiece from 7C



 
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MagnusRM
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Joined: 10 Sep 2021
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:56 am    Post subject: Changing mouthpiece from 7C Reply with quote

I have a trumpet (Bb) which I got when I was a kid. It is called Emo Standard, by F.X. Hüller Co. I don't know much about it, but I guess it must be a student trumpet. It came with a mouthpiece on which it says 7C, and I never tried any other mouthpiece. I played for some years at that time. Now I am 62 years old, and a couple of years back I started to play on it again. I very much enjoy it.

On good days I can play up to G (698 Hz) or sometimes even A (784 Hz). When I was a kid, I think I could only come up to E, or F, so it is a bit better now. But I still would like to come up a bit higher, or at least play those higher tones (G and A) with more ease.

Do you guys think it is likely that another mouthpiece could help in this regard? If so, what would be a good first alternative to try?
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jadickson
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe.

"Mouthpieces are like shoes, you just have to find the one that fits you best and lets you sound the way you want to sound. What fits one person may or may not fit you as well."
And
"Mouthpieces do not make you play higher. Correct technique, muscle tone, a hot girlfriend, and regular practice make you play higher."

The hot girlfriend thing may not be true, but try it anyway.

That said, yes most people find it easier to get up there with a Bach 3C, compared to a 7C. These two sizes are basically the same diameter, but the 3C has a more efficient cup shape and a more comfortable rim.

If the 7C feels "big" on your chops, then try a Yamaha 11B4 or a Bach 10 1/2 C first. Same benefits of the 3C, but the diameter is smaller.

---
A few tips, from a middle school band teacher:
1. Make sure you are not pressing hard with the mouthpiece. You can practice this by balancing the trumpet on one hand with your fingers flat, and trying to play a low C... then up to a G and middle C. This forces you to play without pressure.

2. Make sure you are not rolling in your bottom lip. Also do not push your lips away from your teeth. The lips should be even. Just "blow through soft lips into the hole of the mouthpiece."

3. The better you get at playing really, really soft, the better you will get at everything else.

4. Have fun. This is supposed to be fun, dammit!!! ; )
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:34 am    Post subject: Re: Changing mouthpiece from 7C Reply with quote

MagnusRM wrote:
...
Do you guys think it is likely that another mouthpiece could help in this regard? If so, what would be a good first alternative to try?

--------------------------
Playing high(er) notes is primarily a learned skill. Equipment can make efficiency and endurance improvements, but equipment comes after learning, developing, and practicing the skill.

If your 7C seems to fit ok, then I would continue to use it.
Many players learned wrong technique when they started playing - primarily using high mouthpiece rim pressure to stretch (or compress) their lips like guitar strings in the hope of producing high notes.

My views about good basic embouchure is at -
http://users.hancock.net/jkosta/Embouchure_Basic_Concepts.htm

It is not intended to teach you HOW to do things, but more to make you aware of what needs to be HAPPENING. You can then make small adjustments to your embouchure to find and learn the techniques what work for you.
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would add one thing to the previous two responses, that have given good advice, is that I would replace your mouthpiece if:
1. the one you have is worn, rough on the rim, missing some silver (brass is showing through), etc
2. if the mouthpiece only has a "7C" on it - someones knock-off, likely not a very good design.. Bach 7C, Bach 3C, Bach 10 1/2 C, Yamaha 11B4, Yamaha 14B4. I think worth getting a new one, just to have some faith that the piece is of quality design and material.

Just a short time ago, I found a college student (just beginning trumpet as part of a Brass Methods program) playing on a "7C". The student was struggling a little more than I expected. I took a closer look at the mouthpiece (absolute crap), then tossed it and replaced it with a real mouthpiece.. improvements from the get go.

Then, how about a few lessons with a qualified teacher? Someone to get you going in a solid direction, give you some ideas on an approach/practice, and point you toward good habits, away from bad ones.
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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before you get into a serious mouthpiece hunt - consider going to a local music store and trying a few newer trumpets - both with your present mouthpiece and with something like a Yamaha 11C4 (7C) or something in the Bach 7C range. Your trumpet is at least 50 years old - even the best instruments need some care as the years pass.

I saw some suggestion online that the Emos may have used a non-standard receiver taper which could affect how they perform with modern mouthpieces.

Glad to hear you are playing again. Try to find a community band to join.
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krell1960
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:15 am    Post subject: Re: Changing mouthpiece from 7C Reply with quote

MagnusRM wrote:
I have a trumpet (Bb) which I got when I was a kid. It is called Emo Standard, by F.X. Hüller Co. I don't know much about it, but I guess it must be a student trumpet. It came with a mouthpiece on which it says 7C, and I never tried any other mouthpiece. I played for some years at that time. Now I am 62 years old, and a couple of years back I started to play on it again. I very much enjoy it.

On good days I can play up to G (698 Hz) or sometimes even A (784 Hz). When I was a kid, I think I could only come up to E, or F, so it is a bit better now. But I still would like to come up a bit higher, or at least play those higher tones (G and A) with more ease.

Do you guys think it is likely that another mouthpiece could help in this regard? If so, what would be a good first alternative to try?


Nothing wrong with a new mouthpiece, but sometimes what must be considered first is how your delivering air to you lips. Since its a no name 7c , we have no idea what the specs are, but since you can "hit", not play, G's and A's, its probably good enough to continue with while figuring out what your doing to get those lips to vibrate freely and without undo tension. Have you checked out the Bill Adam approach to playing. Blowing the Leadpipe and other aspects of his basic teaching philosphy ? I would suggest investigating some of his ideas, they are readily available on the web and youtube. You will be surprised at the results i would suspect after just learning what it "feels" like to correctly deliver air to your lips. After you have learned to "make" the leadpipe vibrate freely, your lips will actually be in the correct position to go past "hitting" G's and A's and actually playing them, without strain. Check Out Mr Bill Adams' Approach. then go get a great mouthpiece like a Curry or other name brand. It has to feel great on your lips or its just a waste of time "trying" to get it to work.
I'm you age BTW, there is nothing a 62 year old can't do on trumpet. Age is just a number.

all the best.

tom
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At your stage, please do not start a mouthpiece (mpc.) safari. You don't need it.

Having said that, a moderate change might help. I agree that a mpc. just marked "7C" is probably a copy of the Bach mpc. and may be a cheap one at that. You might find that a Yamaha 11C4, while the same basic size, has a friendlier , more comfortable shape.

p.s. you might be overdue a reliable horn in which case I'd go with a good basic Yamaha. Plenty of time to get fancy in the future,

Get a giid reacher.
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hibidogrulez
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you’re going to shop for a new mouthpiece, ‘better range’ is a good way to go down a path of endless purchases and fruitless safaris. And like most have written, mouthpieces genrally don’t work that way, sorry.

If your mouthpiece is worn on the parts that touch your lips (i.e the plating is gone on the rim or the inside of the cup), then its definitely recommended to get a different one (the brass underneath may have traces of lead in it, especially if it’s old). Otherwise, you may not strictly *need* new gear.

That’s not to say that buying something new can’t be a great (motivational) boost to kickstart your renewed trumpeting career . For good advice though, you’ll want to ask someone who can physically see and hear you play…preferably your teacher if you have one.
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delano
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your trumpet is an Ernst Modl (he married in the Hüller family), see

https://brasspedia.com/index.php?title=Ernst_Modl_brass_instruments

He got some fame by building Henri Selmer clones.

If your 7C is ok, play it and change only if you feel something wrong in your playing that could be caused by the specs of your current mouthpiece. No-brand 7C's can be (very) bad, average and (very) good, so it's up to you.
Comparing mouthpiece diameters with shoe sizes makes no sense at all.
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PMonteiro
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In general mouthpieces won't give you range, BUT a mouthpiece which is not a good fit for you can make you work harder to get range. It's very possible that the 7C makes you work harder than necessary for the range you want. Makes sense since the 7C is fairly deep and not everyone likes the rim.

As others have alluded to, if your mouthpiece says nothing but "7C" on it, it's most likely a knockoff. If so, it may not be identical to a real Bach 7C at all. The generic copies can vary widely (e.g. I have a "7C" that's closer to a 5C or 3C in diameter). That being said, a generic 3C is one of the best mouthpieces I've ever played. Play what makes you feel the most comfortable.
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MagnusRM
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A big thanks to each and everyone who has replied and given me advice and information here.

My conclusion is that a new mouthpiece could possibly be of some help, but I will only try a C3 to see if it has any impact on my ability for range, avoiding any mouthpiece safari. I also must check beforehand if my Emo trumpet has a non-standard receiver taper and take that into consideration.

Again, tanks to all of you!
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the 7C is working well for you except for upper, upper register, try a slight change and see what happens. The 7D and 3C are both fairly similar to the 7C, but shallower. The shallower cup can help with upper register (depending on your embouchure set up). Good luck!
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd recommend postponing a new mouthpiece and apply the cash to taking a lesson or two with a suitable pro. They should be able to tell you if either your mouthpiece or your horn might be impeding your progress. They might even be able to tell you how to evaluate a potential new mouthpiece if you go down that path. More fundamentally they might steer you towards a productive way to build your range. DIY on range building is an exercise in frustration.
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