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Getzen Spit Valves


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_PhilPicc
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BKC wrote:
To keep the C clip from flying away and landing who knows where,
do the removal operation inside a big zip-lock type plastic
bag. Being clear, you can see what you are doing and if the clip
pops out, it will be inside the bag.
This sounds like Heloise.


Seems like a good design to me.
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Rogerrr
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m curious- if the valves need to be oiled on a regular basis, is there a problem if you don’t play the horn for extended periods?

I’m actually a sax player exploring cornet and trombone so I’m likely to have long periods where the horn just sits in the case
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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As one never knows when the "extended time off" is going to start, it is good practice to flush the horn and valve crooks with water, blow out the water, and oil the valves at the end of each practice day.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerrr wrote:
I’m curious- if the valves need to be oiled on a regular basis, is there a problem if you don’t play the horn for extended periods? ...

------------------
If 'extended periods' means more than 6 months, then make sure that all water is drained, and wipe the valves and apply fresh oil. It's also important that the horn be stored in 'normal living space' - not in a damp basement, or in a hot/cold attic.
For periods of just a few weeks or months, then just normal handling should be enough.

When the horn will again be used, re-oil the valves and check whether the slides need to be re-greased.
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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerrr wrote:
I’m curious- if the valves need to be oiled on a regular basis, is there a problem if you don’t play the horn for extended periods?

I’m actually a sax player exploring cornet and trombone so I’m likely to have long periods where the horn just sits in the case


Yes - if "extended" means more than 2 or 3 weeks. Even if oiled with valve oil. You might consider stuffing some silicone grease or very heavy weight oil in it for storage. Apply some valve oil to flush it out when you are ready to play. It depends on the water key. Some are fine after months without use - others you have to watch after even a couple of weeks.
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Grits Burgh
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.pollardwaterkey.com/aboutkey

Pollard water keys look to be an improvement (no small parts to lose). I haven't had them installed yet, but I am thinking about having them installed on my new Getzen cornet when it arrives.

Warm regards,
Grits
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have horns with Amados, Saturn and “versions” of Amados, (Adams and Carol Brass). IMO, the best are the Amado-type that Adams uses, very smooth and they seem to empty the best. And no C clips.

Brad
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Tony Scodwell
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:24 am    Post subject: "Amado" type waterkeys Reply with quote

Valve oiling your Amado waterkeys is OK but when Ray Amado designed these in 1968, he developed a synthetic product for lubricating them. Ray never had a chance to bring this product to market as he passed away too soon. I agree with the bad raps the original Amado keys have gotten over the years as in sticking, not getting rid of the moisture etc. Of course I have chimed in many times telling the posters that cleaning the keys is the most important thing you can do. Taking them apart for thorough cleaning can be a drag what with the circlip and end plate sometimes flying into the black hole in your shop. Stocking spare parts is a must if you're inclined to disassemble them yourself. The new and improved versions appear to be a better way to go and on my Scodwell USA instruments I've chosen to use the Carol Brass waterkey which eliminates the circlip and end plate by having a screw on/off end cap. Another advantage is the 1/8th drill size opening allowing more moisture to get out. Ray Amado did a similar modification in the 80's only he utilized a plastic snap cap to replace the circlip and endplate. DEG was the only company using this design and today Monette uses this style waterkey. Lubrication as always is important and my choice is a product called "SpaceFiller", a synthetic light lubricant which lasts a long time and provides smooth operation.

Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com
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Croquethed
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've found the lighter the oil, the better. I use the same thing I use on my valves for my 900, Monster's Doc's Juice.

Occasionally, and I mean very occasionally, they will gum up a little bit between baths. A couple blasts of canned air cleans them right out.
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BadHomreSure
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brad361 wrote:
I have horns with Amados, Saturn and “versions” of Amados, (Adams and Carol Brass). IMO, the best are the Amado-type that Adams uses, very smooth and they seem to empty the best. And no C clips.

Brad


Interesting. I had continuous problems with air leaks through the water key on both Adams I've owned, regardless of oiling/cleaning. They seemed to be far more fickle than normal Amados. I'd spend a few days thinking my intonation had gone out the window, until I'd realize the key was leaking again. I gave up and got a Saturn on my A4 and all's well.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xxx
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Last edited by kehaulani on Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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spitvalve
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 42+ year old Getzen Eterna flugel has Amado keys and they still work great. They occasionally get stiff if I don't play if for awhile, but a drop of valve oil has always solved the problem. Same with my Eterna 700 trumpet. As long as I keep it clean there's no problem with the spit valves. My Getzen Capri cornet is pre-Amado, but even with the lever keys the shape of the horn requires me to pull the slides and shake the water out after every session. Not sure how useful the Amado keys would be on that horn.
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BadHomreSure
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:

A shot in the dark and a little heretical considering Adams' reputation, but is it possible your spitholes are uneven?


Adams QC is definitely not perfect. I've had to tweak a few things on my current horn to get it up to its potential--basic things like fixing the alignment of the first valve slide so that I could get it to slide without popping my thumb out of joint. My former Adams had other QC issues. That said, after the tweaks it's a great horn. The horn design is spot-on, think it's the QC where Adams falls short (in my admittedly limited experience).

The Adams Amado-style key just seemed to have a tendency to get misaligned through normal use. I could always fix it by taking it apart and reassembling, but it seems crazy to me to have to do that every few weeks. Not sure if I just happened to get two bad keys, or if it's the design itself. Certainly don't come across it much in the forums here.
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cbtj51
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spitvalve wrote:
My 42+ year old Getzen Eterna flugel has Amado keys and they still work great. They occasionally get stiff if I don't play if for awhile, but a drop of valve oil has always solved the problem.


+1

Occasional speedbumps here as well, but always easily fixed with a little oil and sometimes bent paperclip assistance and back in service!

Mike
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Jim Becker or other techs and players -

Does it make any difference how a horn plays or sounds if the Amado or conventional spit keys are swapped out?
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