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deleted_user_687c31b New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:21 am Post subject: How to do well at 1st chair/lead playing? |
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Searching for 'how to play first chair' usually results in all sorts of tips on how to get the position of first chair, but little about what to do once you get it. There are some great guides and tips on how to be a good 2nd chair (which give a little insight on the role of the 1st too), but not much about the expectations of being on 1st chair and how to meet them.
For a good deal of my trumpet career, I've been 'the lead player' by virtue of being either the only trumpet player, or the one that had best chance of someday potentially being able to maybe reach the high notes. Just being able to play the parts used to take most of my focus. However, now that my technique has advanced I'd like to improve more on the musical/social aspects of playing lead in an ensemble.
Does anyone have any advice they'd like to share? |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2067 Location: Germany
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:38 am Post subject: |
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I can relate to that, became 1st trumpet in our community orchestra simply because I could read music better than some others and because I had practiced a lot of the stuff that I could not do when I was younger. Also, I am much less nervous than I used to be before gigs - I presume this is from the fact that my day job trained me pretty well for being the one in charge.
Having said that, as the first chair, there are three things that I mostly do:
1. make sure the „section“, including some low brass and the drummer, who is just behind me on stage, knows where we are.
2. (try to) enforce the dynamics, indicate the use of mutes at the right places, decide who plays which parts if we’re reducing, make sure people don’t miss upcoming codas or D.S.s, attempt to keep the section in tune and time, keep an eye contact with the director.
3. shush the whole orchestra, because as soon as we stop playing almost everyone starts chatting - at least during rehearsals. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1473 Location: OHare area
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:47 am Post subject: |
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I am certain there will be other knowledgeable posts to follow, but this what I was taught and what I learned from being "first chair" in bands and orchestras and being a section member as well.
1. Have the chops to do the job.
2. Lead your section wisely. Don't be a jerk. Help them when necessary, but never chastise a player. That is the conductor's job.
3. Play in tune with the band/orchestra.
4. Know the music and play in the correct style it asks for.
5. Stay out of the other sections' business. Each section has its leaders and they will handle it. That is not your job.
6. Understand you are making music with a group. Unless you are soloing, don't be a show off up there.
7. A leader knows when to lead, follow, or get out of the way.
8. Be ready for anything.
9. Even if the conductor is lousy, unless the performance is coming off the tracks, try to follow. If you know what is happening, try to correct what you can.
10. Have the right frame of mind. A distracted mind is a dangerous thing.
11. Have the proper equipment.
12. Be prepared.
13. Enjoy what you are doing!
R. Tomasek |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:11 am Post subject: |
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Listen very discriminately to other great players for their musicality, articulations, phrasing, etc. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5861 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:34 am Post subject: |
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This Bobby Shew article is the best thing I've seen.
https://www.bobbyshew.com/main_prnt.html?pgid=7&art_artcl_id=10&art_tpc_id=8 _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2067 Location: Germany
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:04 am Post subject: |
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I like point No. 10 in the list above best: concentrate. That’s what a lot of making music is all about. While enjoying making music still being able to concentrate and deliver. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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Jon Arnold Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2002 Posts: 2027
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:10 am Post subject: |
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+1 |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:46 am Post subject: |
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WOW!! _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Last edited by kehaulani on Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:52 am Post subject: |
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COPY COPY COPY
If you are playing a Basie tune sit down with your part and the Basie recording and copy what the lead player does EXACTLY.
Mark on your part whatever you can't remember. Phrasing, dynamics, etc. _________________ Bill Bergren |
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wohlrab Veteran Member
Joined: 30 Mar 2015 Posts: 131 Location: California
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:05 am Post subject: |
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There's a lot to think about but I've always felt that it starts with locking in on the high hat in the drums for time, and the bass for intonation. |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:14 am Post subject: |
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wohlrab wrote: | There's a lot to think about but I've always felt that it starts with locking in on the high hat in the drums for time, and the bass for intonation. |
Yes. The lead trumpet and drummer need to be in the same womb. _________________ Bill Bergren |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:17 am Post subject: |
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Vin DiBona wrote: | I am certain there will be other knowledgeable posts to follow, but this what I was taught and what I learned from being "first chair" in bands and orchestras and being a section member as well.
1. Have the chops to do the job.
2. Lead your section wisely. Don't be a jerk. Help them when necessary, but never chastise a player. That is the conductor's job.
3. Play in tune with the band/orchestra.
4. Know the music and play in the correct style it asks for.
5. Stay out of the other sections' business. Each section has its leaders and they will handle it. That is not your job.
6. Understand you are making music with a group. Unless you are soloing, don't be a show off up there.
7. A leader knows when to lead, follow, or get out of the way.
8. Be ready for anything.
9. Even if the conductor is lousy, unless the performance is coming off the tracks, try to follow. If you know what is happening, try to correct what you can.
10. Have the right frame of mind. A distracted mind is a dangerous thing.
11. Have the proper equipment.
12. Be prepared.
13. Enjoy what you are doing!
R. Tomasek |
THIS. ☝️
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:59 am Post subject: |
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Not about lead playing but Bobby's comments as they related to being a member of the section - he gave me a whole new pride.
I've played lead Alto Sax plenty of times so, when playing section trumpet, often carried with me an in-charge mentality. But that sometimes transferred, no matter how subtly, into my feeling that ~I~ know how the lead part should really be played. Bobby's word gave me a real pride and satisfaction in being a section player.
I should note that I have played lead and first trumpet, or "only trumpet" in pop/soul bands, but that's not the same as being a large-ensemble section player. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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gwood66 Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 301 Location: South of Chicago
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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The only thing I can add to what already been said is maybe check out Jim Maxwell's book The First Trumpeter. It has information that I have found useful. _________________ Gary Wood (comeback player with no street cred)
GR 66M/66MS/66**
Bach Strad 37
Getzen 3052
Yamaha 6345 |
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blbaumgarn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2017 Posts: 705
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:08 pm Post subject: How to do well at 1st chair/lead playing |
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There is sage wisdom from this group of players put forth here. The one thing that one of my teachers added to me during a lesson once was, "try to be the most humble member of your section." _________________ "There are two sides to a trumpeter's personality,
there is one that lives to lay waste to woodwinds and strings, leaving them lie blue and lifeless along a swath of destruction that is a
trumpeter's fury-then there is the dark side!" Irving Bush |
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deleted_user_687c31b New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:11 am Post subject: |
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Wow, that’s some great responses! Thanks! It’s much appreaciated.
Most of the posts are from a band perspective…is there a difference between playing 1st in an orchestra as opposed to in a band? |
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Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1473 Location: OHare area
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Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:21 am Post subject: |
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In a community band, depending on how many are in the section, you usually have more than one on a part. Band music can have as many as 5 separate parts.
In an orchestra, one on a part is the norm, but there can be times there is doubling. Basically, there are no more than 4 trumpets in the section. Of course, there are exceptions.
Many famous works have just two parts. As one gets into the late 19th century and early 20th century, you will find more than just two parts.
Go on Youtube and look for the music with the scores following the music.
Here is an example of Mahler writing for 6 trumpets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oep5Rude4mQ&t=1391s
R. Tomasek |
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Seymor B Fudd Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015 Posts: 1474 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:39 am Post subject: |
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hibidogrulez wrote: | Wow, that’s some great responses! Thanks! It’s much appreaciated.
Most of the posts are from a band perspective…is there a difference between playing 1st in an orchestra as opposed to in a band? |
I agree with the posters here. Very interesting to read Vin Di Bonas reference to Bobby Shew. Thanks a lot.
From my own experience I can tell this: besides having a solid base in your own playing, radiating "security", you will have to include your section mates in your playing. Communicate that what you want them to observe, be kind and establish a "facilitating" atmosphere.
I have played lead in amateur big bands, at the same time playing front row in a brass band thereby finding some differences. The prinicipal ("concert Meister") of the concert band must actively include the rest of the section, while at the same time being in close touch with the director (of course this goes for everyone). So communication is important, as is the atmosphere. You can´t sit there playing for yourself!
In big bands, as I see it, the lead alto, lead trumpet and the drummer must "sync", keeping up the energy - thus form a kind of an avatar for the absent director so to speak. Kind of a virtual hologram holding the entire band.
In all bands the syncronization is paramount; an orchestra should play like one organism capable of painting with multipel brushes. By the way, when this happens, then you will become aware of having experienced something very unique! A moment to remember!
In concert bands the director´s ability to transmit, to establish a working liason with each and every member of the band is crucial. The concert meister is a link in this process.
It all boils down to the communication, the transmission of intentions, feelings, you name it between the musicians. Modern brain research has illuminated this process (such as the Mirror Neuron System) but that´s another story. _________________ Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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Rod Haney Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2015 Posts: 937
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Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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My band director who played sax in some 60’s name bands told me that the lead player lead and played on top of the band. That meant he had to have rhythm, intonation, play the style, and set the swing. I was taught to listen to the song if it was recorded and play like the guy on the record. I was taught that the band would play only as well as I did. Our high school band made 2 LPs and sold thousands of each (band boosters probably). I also knew and had played with a Kenton lead player when I was very young and he was in from school and he gave me a good idea of the sound required to play above. Listen to a good lead players in good bands live and copy. Oh, and you can’t be afraid of anything even bad notes.
That’s what I was taught, take it with a grain of salt as I never followed thru.
Rod |
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deleted_user_687c31b New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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There’s certainly a lot for me to work with and improve on. I am and likely will always be an amateur player, but if I’m gonna be doing this, I want to get it right…or at least as little ‘wrong’ as possible. Thank you all for your input, it’s really appreciated. |
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