View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
thickeyjr New Member
Joined: 13 May 2021 Posts: 8 Location: Phoenix
|
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:44 pm Post subject: Questions from a comeback player after a LONG layoff |
|
|
Hello, I have been reading quite a few threads to help plan my comeback. I have some questions that I know are pretty broad, but I do appreciate any input. I played from elementary school through college, but it has been over 40 years since I played regularly. I was able to find a reasonably priced LA Benge 3x, which is what I played through college and was pleasantly surprised that I could get at least some sound out of it. My goals are to get my chops back and play in some kind of community band. I enjoyed a variety of styles, and still do. I was a solid amateur, but did not reach or aspire to a professional level. I was also more of a feel player than technical, but the years have taught me that a balance of both aspects are useful to really excel in anything.
I don't really have a timetable on rebuilding my chops, but I plan to spend structured time daily and rebuild my skill and endurance gradually. What kind of timeframe is reasonable if I maintain a disciplined approach and practice schedule? It won't change my goals, but I do want to have realistic expectations on progress (another lesson learned over the years).
I am also willing to commit to professional instruction, but my nature is that I would prefer to have recovered at least some of my lost skills before I do that. Should I check my ego and start lessons sooner? At what point would that be worth the expense? I live in the Phoenix metro area, so any suggestions on good local teachers would be helpful. Online would also be an option.
Thanks for any input. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
deleted_user_687c31b New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
|
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:57 am Post subject: Re: Questions from a comeback player after a LONG layoff |
|
|
thickeyjr wrote: | I am also willing to commit to professional instruction, but my nature is that I would prefer to have recovered at least some of my lost skills before I do that. Should I check my ego and start lessons sooner? At what point would that be worth the expense? |
Lessons can be helpful from the start, to help you rebuild your old skills sooner, but also to catch any less useful habits you may have before they become set in stone (unlearning is a lot harder than learning, trust me). I'd say getting a teacher sooner rather than later is very beneficial, and, as long as playing the trumpet is something you're seriously going to pursue, it'll be worth the expense.
As for the comment about checking your ego, I think that's wise in general and especially when playing the trumpet. For lessons however, a teacher's goal is to help you improve, regardless of whatever skill level you happen to have when walking in. They simply care about the music, not about what you can do when you first meet them. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rod Haney Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2015 Posts: 937
|
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:26 am Post subject: Re: Questions from a comeback player after a LONG layoff |
|
|
hibidogrulez wrote: | thickeyjr wrote: | I am also willing to commit to professional instruction, but my nature is that I would prefer to have recovered at least some of my lost skills before I do that. Should I check my ego and start lessons sooner? At what point would that be worth the expense? |
Lessons can be helpful from the start, to help you rebuild your old skills sooner, but also to catch any less useful habits you may have before they become set in stone (unlearning is a lot harder than learning, trust me). I'd say getting a teacher sooner rather than later is very beneficial, and, as long as playing the trumpet is something you're seriously going to pursue, it'll be worth the expense.
As for the comment about checking your ego, I think that's wise in general and especially when playing the trumpet. For lessons however, a teacher's goal is to help you improve, regardless of whatever skill level you happen to have when walking in. They simply care about the music, not about what you can do when you first meet them. |
Very good post. I will say it has been about 7 years since I started back and I still haven’t reached the level I had when I quit over 40 years ago. Some things have exceeded my previous level - such as range but only because I only had a hi f before and I felt I had to have the g I never had, kind of a qualifier to get serious, that took 6 years to get. I have not reached my previous ability in articulation, endurance or fingering. I think it’s reasonable progress given that I played 6 hours a day then and at most 2 now. I have more access to instructions and info now but the motivation to play at a very high level is not the same, and the opportunity to play the big band music I love only exists for the elite few these days - even in 1970 I could see the venue was dying. Be very reasonable in your expectations would be my advice and get and take any opportunity to get help, my tip would be Skype with Bobby Shew, he can give you enough in an hour to keep you busy for months - a very good investment. I started out thinking that in 2 years I would be playing at my old level and may have if I’d asked for help and practiced more, honestly that was an inflated ego talking.
Rod |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2090 Location: USA
|
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: | I am also willing to commit to professional instruction, but my nature is that I would prefer to have recovered at least some of my lost skills before I do that. Should I check my ego and start lessons sooner? |
Welcome back to trumpet playing! Start taking lessons as soon as you can. Working with a teacher will help ensure a good embouchure set up now. That's really important as embouchure-related issues are probably the #1 source of frustration for trumpet players, and trying to "fix" them after bad habits have formed is hard.
Also, your teacher can help you put together a daily practice routine that meets your needs and helps you progress toward your goals: What to practice, how to practice it, etc.
Good luck! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3366 Location: Endwell NY USA
|
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:59 am Post subject: Re: Questions from a comeback player after a LONG layoff |
|
|
thickeyjr wrote: | ... My goals are to get my chops back and play in some kind of community band. I enjoyed a variety of styles, and still do. I was a solid amateur, but did not reach or aspire to a professional level. ... |
--------------------
Joining a community band is a good idea, usually friendly people and not a competitive environment. Don't worry too much about needing high ability, being able to play at middle-school level should be enough to get started.
Another possibility is a college band that includes 'community members'. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
|
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
Get in touch with Dan Reed for lessons ASAP.
PM me for contact info _________________ Bill Bergren |
|
Back to top |
|
|
trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5701 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
|
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
I've always tended to be a proponent of doing things myself, but I think that maybe for someone who has had such a long layoff, getting someone who can assess what you are doing and what you need to work on, along with adding some real structure to it, is probably a good idea.
As others have said, an instructor can help you avoid some pitfalls and bad habits before they have a chance to form/reform, and they can streamline what you need to work on so that you'll improve and get back up to speed as quickly as possible. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gwood66 Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 302 Location: South of Chicago
|
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
6 steps of a trumpet comeback:
1. Excitement (I don't need lessons, I'm going to be playing like a pro in no time)
2. Disillusionment (this is a lot more work than I remember)
3. Panic (I must be doing something wrong because I am not making rapid progress)
4. The new mouthpiece (it has to be the problem)
5. The new horn (the new mouthpiece didn't fix things)
6. Realization (There really is no shortcut to this process, I better get some lessons)
Seriously though, with a solid practice schedule and some monthly lessons there is no reason to think you wont be playing reasonably well within a year or so. Performance range, endurance and consistency takes a little longer.(still working on it) Joining a local community college band and playing in a municipal band really helps keep it fun. Good luck with your comeback. _________________ Gary Wood (comeback player with no street cred)
GR 66M/66MS/66**
Bach Strad 37
Getzen 3052
Yamaha 6345 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mikepodorski Regular Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2020 Posts: 34
|
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm about a year and a half ahead of you with a similar background. gwood66 is right about the 6 steps, lol.
This is one of the most humbling experiences, but I love it! I would say it took a solid year to get to the point where I felt comfortable playing in public. Don't put a time frame on your progress. Practice daily. Enjoy making music. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
|
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
gwood66 wrote: | 6 steps of a trumpet comeback:
1. Excitement (I don't need lessons, I'm going to be playing like a pro in no time)
2. Disillusionment (this is a lot more work than I remember)
3. Panic (I must be doing something wrong because I am not making rapid progress)
4. The new mouthpiece (it has to be the problem)
5. The new horn (the new mouthpiece didn't fix things)
6. Realization (There really is no shortcut to this process, I better get some lessons)
Seriously though, with a solid practice schedule and some monthly lessons there is no reason to think you wont be playing reasonably well within a year or so. Performance range, endurance and consistency takes a little longer.(still working on it) Joining a local community college band and playing in a municipal band really helps keep it fun. Good luck with your comeback. |
Don't forget the internet search for "the answer". _________________ Bill Bergren |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Jaw04 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015 Posts: 911 Location: Bay Area, California
|
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Do you have a brass quintet or chamber group you could play with? I have never stopped playing since I started so I'm not much help in sharing my experience, but I have played with comeback players in chamber groups. I think it is an excellent way to challenge yourself if you have a weekly group you play with. Brass quintet is great for working on sight-reading, blending, endurance, intonation, and playing expressively. I think it's ideal compared to a full community band, because you can really hear yourself and play independently while still making music with a group. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gpena73 New Member
Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Posts: 7
|
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
Comeback player here. I am loving it the second time around even more. If I could chime in here, I would stress the importance of rest. Both in between sessions and during sessions. The micro muscular of our chops are sensitive little birds and forcing things to happen only do us harm. Good luck! Shedding for life👍🏼 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
|
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
Billy B wrote: |
Don't forget the internet search for "the answer". |
Great. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5701 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
|
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
gwood66 wrote: | 6 steps of a trumpet comeback:
1. Excitement (I don't need lessons, I'm going to be playing like a pro in no time)
2. Disillusionment (this is a lot more work than I remember)
3. Panic (I must be doing something wrong because I am not making rapid progress)
4. The new mouthpiece (it has to be the problem)
5. The new horn (the new mouthpiece didn't fix things)
6. Realization (There really is no shortcut to this process, I better get some lessons)
|
Those three are the things I've seen over and over on the trumpet forums over the years with comeback players. It would seem that they forgot that it took them literally years as a kid to get to a level of solid proficiency, but they think that somehow they can circumvent the time with adult level knowledge, focus and discipline. Those help some, but the truth is that it doesn't come back quickly, just like it didn't develop quickly the first time around.
Something else to consider is that not everyone gets good at this. I know people who have been at this for literally decades - they work at it, and yet they still can't seem to manage to ascend past a certain level of mediocrity, and that's something a comebacker needs to be prepared to accept. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9144 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
I keep reading posts with recurring themes of a true love of music and of perseverance.
Illustrating those was an experience I had when visiting a New Horizons Band. When they were packing up to leave, I noticed one of the alto players hooking herself back up to an oxygen tank. Touching and inspiring. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet |
|
Back to top |
|
|
thickeyjr New Member
Joined: 13 May 2021 Posts: 8 Location: Phoenix
|
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:35 pm Post subject: Thank you all! |
|
|
I really appreciate all the feedback. That is one of the reasons that I like this forum. People are more than willing to help out and share their thoughts. I will take all the advice in and update my plan. More importantly, I am resetting some expectations on what I can expect on progress. Thanks again! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ebolton Veteran Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2021 Posts: 123 Location: New Hampshire, USA
|
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
trickg wrote: |
Something else to consider is that not everyone gets good at this. I know people who have been at this for literally decades - they work at it, and yet they still can't seem to manage to ascend past a certain level of mediocrity, and that's something a comebacker needs to be prepared to accept. |
Hey, Patrick, as a 'comeback player' I'm with you. I was never good to start with. Now I'm approaching retirement age, during the pandemic lockdowns trumpet was one of the things I've come back to. I don't think I'll ever be playing for money. I don't think I want to. I could see joining a community band of some type. I did sit in one back in my youth because there was a hot trombonist I was after. Since I've started playing again, I looked her up- she's now a music professor somewhere. She looks about as old as me. That isn't what I remember.
But now I'm in it because I love to pursue excellence. I like the feeling when I can play something with no mistakes. When I get the timing right and the fingering right and I hit the right note, it's really satisfying. More so than I can remember from when I was a kid. It probably comes from making tons and tons of mistakes in other elements of life since then.
Anyway, when I see your posts and replies, I pay attention. I guess I'm a fanboy of yours. Your opinions generally align with mine, and I appreciate what you say. _________________ -Ed |
|
Back to top |
|
|
trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5701 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
|
Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
I appreciate that - not everyone feels that way about things I post!
I've been called a pessimist in the past by certain people who always want to look through the rose colored glasses. I've never thought about it like that - I'm from the rural Midwest and grew up in a family that was a farm family until we sold it when I was 2 - people like that tend to be pragmatic people. My parents were definitely that way and I'd like to think that some of it rubbed off.
In any case, I've always tried to take a practical approach to my playing - I think far too often many aspiring players get caught up in a lot of hype, or spin their wheels searching for a tip, trick, hack, mouthpiece, etc, when most often the best tip or trick would be to put in some focused time in the practice room trying to eradicate deficiencies, and working to fine tune the rest. (see my signature line below)
With that said, you should take anything I say with a grain of salt - I'm a solid enough player - have managed to be able to be a paid player for a long time, but I've never been good enough to break into top-tier things. There are players here on the board who are MUCH better than I am, and with much better resumes to prove it. I like to try to help where feel I can though. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1871 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
|
Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
trickg wrote: | [
Something else to consider is that not everyone gets good at this. I know people who have been at this for literally decades - they work at it, and yet they still can't seem to manage to ascend past a certain level of mediocrity, and that's something a comebacker needs to be prepared to accept. |
That's the thing about being in a community band - there is a place for solid (but average i.e. mediocre ) players who will never be the "stars" but who learn their parts and show up on time with their music - because they love being part of something whose output is greater than the sum of it's parts.
I don't know that my "last conscious thoughts will be of the 'band', and the 'band', and the 'band'"- but they might be. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Don Herman rev2 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 8974 Location: Monument, CO
|
Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
All my memories of how good I was were a major impediment to coming back after a 20-year layoff. All my worst old habits returned very quickly, and some new ones developed, in the effort to push myself too hard, too fast.
As I have said many times, the best thing I ever did was to find a good teacher. The worst thing I did was to wait too long. Should have done it on day one, or maybe -1.
FWIWFM - Don _________________ "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|