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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9033 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:43 pm Post subject: Bore size of Miles' Committee? |
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Been listening to/watching a video of Miles in Milano '64 and got curious. Something that never just crossed my mind. Did Miles play a medium or a large bore Committee? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7013 Location: AZ
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Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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When I was working with Kanstul to launch the 1603+ Wallace Roney edition, I interviewed Wallace over the phone a couple of times. One of his prized memories he shared was of being summoned up to Miles’ hotel room after playing a gig with him. Only Miles’ close and very select few friends ever had such a privilege. Later, Miles took a trumpet from his personal collection and gave it to Wallace. Wallace played it for years and that horn was what Kanstul patterned the 1603+ after. It was a large .468” bore Martin Committee. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
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Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 1928 Location: WI
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Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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Miles may have been playing a large bore Committee in the late sixties and seventies, but I seem to recall reading that he was playing a medium bore Committee in the forties and fifties. In fact, I read an anecdote that someone gave him a large bore Committee to try early on; he played a few notes on it, put it down, and said "You gotta be kidding" (with a negative connotation).
I can't recall exactly where I read this . . . I was very into Miles early in my jazz fandom and read a whole raft of biographies of him and other major players in the heyday of bebop, so it was probably in one of those. I'm sure someone else on this forum will have additional information with better references to back it up (as Brian does with the Wallace Roney phone conversations). |
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Bill Ortiz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 904
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Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:01 am Post subject: |
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Miles played the medium bore in the '50's, and in the '60's he played both medium and large bore horns. According to Wallace, he said that Miles played whatever horn he liked and didn't care about bore as long as he felt a connection to the horn. To my ear it was mostly large bore from the mid sixties on. When you listen to Jack Johnson and Bitches Brew, that's definitely large bore. _________________ '56 Martin Committee Deluxe #2 trumpet
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:28 am Post subject: |
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I did a lot of reading about Miles and I remember that someone wrote that he on stage used the large bore, in the studio the medium bore. No idea wether that's right or wrong and maybe it's only valid for a certain period.
And I agree with BO that Miles changed his sound for the electric period to one with more emphasis on power. |
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Divitt Trumpets Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2015 Posts: 520 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:08 am Post subject: |
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Bill Ortiz wrote: | Miles played the medium bore in the '50's, and in the '60's he played both medium and large bore horns. According to Wallace, he said that Miles played whatever horn he liked and didn't care about bore as long as he felt a connection to the horn. To my ear it was mostly large bore from the mid sixties on. When you listen to Jack Johnson and Bitches Brew, that's definitely large bore. |
You can't tell a .008" difference in a select portion of tubing in a trumpet by a recording. _________________ www.divitt-trumpets.com
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Bill Ortiz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 904
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Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:29 am Post subject: |
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He had a different tone and approach on the different horns. Having played both horns and know how they play and sound, I can usually hear it in his playing and tone. There's a significant difference between how they both play. In addition, the difference in the bore is .15 not .08- the bell diameter on the #2 is 4.75" while on the #3 it's 5". _________________ '56 Martin Committee Deluxe #2 trumpet
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Couesnon Paris flugelhorn
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Liberty Lips Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 983
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Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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Bill Ortiz wrote: | He had a different tone and approach on the different horns. Having played both horns and know how they play and sound, I can usually hear it in his playing and tone. There's a significant difference between how they both play. In addition, the difference in the bore is .15 not .08- the bell diameter on the #2 is 4.75" while on the #3 it's 5". |
What does the bell diameter have to do with the bore size? |
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Goby Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Posts: 652
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Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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the #3 bore committee has a 4-7/8" diameter bell, same as the medium bore committee. You have to be crazy to think you can hear a difference in bore size of a trumpet, especially on a 60 year old recording that was made with comparatively primitive recording technology and has likely been compressed at every step in the chan from being digitized to uploaded to the internet. |
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Bill Ortiz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 904
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Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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Goby, first of all you are incorrect about the #2 and #3 Committees having the same diameter bell. Second of all, I believe you are able to convey a different opinion without being insulting.
There is a significant bore size between these two horns and the bell difference definitely effects things as well, and from someone who had played both extensively I can tell you from experience that the tone and feel is noticeably different. Have you played both horns extensively Goby? If you disagree that's fine, but I've recorded both of these for years and am speaking from first hand experience. _________________ '56 Martin Committee Deluxe #2 trumpet
14B Schilke mouthpiece
Couesnon Paris flugelhorn
Bob Reeves Sleeves and PVA |
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