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BouttavongMusic New Member
Joined: 09 Jun 2018 Posts: 1 Location: Wilmington, DE
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:10 am Post subject: Tone Development for Beginning Students |
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We all know that sound is everything when it comes to trumpet playing. I am interested to hear of what everyone's opinions are when it comes to developing those healthy habits with students.
I cannot even begin to state how many times I have had this conversation with band directors with soft vs bombastic playing.
Let's just assume a student has been instructed with basic embouchure formation...
What are some pros and cons of just playing whatever sound comes out of the instrument? Is there a benefit to instructing a student to play softer, yet supported. When is a good time to expand their dynamic box? _________________ Tyler Bouttavong
Private Brass Instructor
Freelance Musician |
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Bethmike Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2020 Posts: 194 Location: NW of ORD
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:47 am Post subject: |
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I hope some advanced players and instructors post comments. I would love to hear a few points of view. _________________ Bach190ML43
Kanstul 1001
Bach NY7
Yamaha 631 Flugel |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9033 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:49 am Post subject: |
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Good, solid breath support.
Keep the airstream constantly flowing, windpipe not tense.
I don't know what the loud or soft controversy is other than someone taking a dogmatic either/or straw man where none is appropriate. Eventually, you should practice and develop a good sound at any volume.
I would recommend:
Vincent Cichowicz' "Long Tones"
- - (often wrongly called "Flow Studies" + title is deceptive)
Concone's, "Lyrical Studies for Trumpet"
Lowell Little's. "The Embouchure Builder"
For me, Vince Cichowicz' writing on breath is the go-to source; succinct, efficient and not prone to lengthy, pedantic micro-analysis. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
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Jaw04 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015 Posts: 900 Location: Bay Area, California
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:14 am Post subject: |
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I have my students keep a journal and we do daily journal assignments. Early on we define the term resonance. We talk about what makes a resonant sound, free vibration, relaxation. "A resonant sound can be soft or it can be loud. A resonant sound is flexible. We always strive for a resonant, full sound on every note we play."
I always remind them of this, but mostly for beginners you just work with the sound they're getting and don't try to micromanage too much physically unless you are 1 on 1 with a student. I am teaching a class of a 32 students at a time so that's not possible. Breathing visualization exercises... you are cooling soup not blowing out birthday candles. The lips need to be free to vibrate. Lots of call and response so they can try to match my sound.
Hope this is helpful. |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3310 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:24 am Post subject: Re: Tone Development for Beginning Students |
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BouttavongMusic wrote: | ...
What are some pros and cons of just playing whatever sound comes out of the instrument? ... |
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I think that some part of early instruction and self-training needs to emphasize being able to 'cleanly' play individual notes at a mp / mf loudness - having the note start at the desired loudness and have 'acceptable sound quality' MAINTAINED from beginning to end.
It is important for the player to understand and recognize 'acceptable sound', and to develop the skill to reliably produce it. After that, items such as moving notes, loudness changes, articulations, etc. can follow. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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RobertCharlton Regular Member
Joined: 18 Aug 2020 Posts: 23 Location: Chikago
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:35 am Post subject: Re: Tone Development for Beginning Students |
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JayKosta wrote: | BouttavongMusic wrote: | ...
What are some pros and cons of just playing whatever sound comes out of the instrument? ... |
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I think that some part of early instruction and self-training needs to emphasize being able to 'cleanly' play individual notes at a mp / mf loudness - having the note start at the desired loudness and have 'acceptable sound quality' MAINTAINED from beginning to end.
It is important for the player to understand and recognize 'acceptable sound', and to develop the skill to reliably produce it. After that, items such as moving notes, loudness changes, articulations, etc. can follow. I was self-taught as I was learning to play. At that time, I had studied sociology in college and don't have the opportunity to find a piping teacher. I used https://paperap.com/free-papers/labeling-theory/ to quickly do my homework by ordering essays on labelling theory. And only after graduating from college, I realized that after all, I was born for music.
going back to French horn!
Yamaha 668N, Holton DC mpc
The 'next note' is the most important one.
Lip gotta be able to vibrate!
http://users.hancock.net/jkosta/2021_Oct_5_web.jpg
October Rainbow |
I developed an ear for music for a very long time and learned to play, because I was self-taught. |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3310 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:55 am Post subject: Re: Tone Development for Beginning Students |
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RobertCharlton wrote: | I was self-taught as I was learning to play. At that time, I had studied sociology in college and don't have the opportunity to find a piping teacher. I used https://paperap.com/free-papers/labeling-theory/ to quickly do my homework by ordering essays on labelling theory. And only after graduating from college, I realized that after all, I was born for music.
...
I developed an ear for music for a very long time and learned to play, because I was self-taught. |
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I think the words above were ALL from RobertCharlton - they are not from anything that I posted. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2334 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:01 am Post subject: |
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The process for learning the trumpet, and any wind instrumet, is lenghty, and just that, a "long process". I find fault in the question... "Let's just assume a student has been instructed with basic embouchure formation" is loaded with all sorts of misunderstanding..
First we get the sounds out, then we refine them over time. Often, they are gross, poorly attained, and out of control. It's a process of experimentation, repetition, and time.
I find many band directors give instruction that then has to be unlearned by developing players later on... too many to go into but as an example: "squeeze or set your diaphragm and blow" which creates all sorts of tension and more pinching an squeezing than necessary..
Long tones / flow studies
breath starts - "hOO, pOO, tOO"
lyrical playing
slurring everything before adding articulation
lip slurs - slow and fast
scales, scales, scales, scales
finger studies
articulation practice - from very pointed "tu" to legato "lu" and everything inbetween. no "TUT". "DIT", "..UT"
and all the above done with varying dynamics - with focus toward the softer end.
LISTEN.
Listen to trumpet players - having something to emulate, a target, is necessary. How do you know what the instrument can do if you never hear it.? _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9033 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:05 am Post subject: |
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@zaferis, you being ex-AF and probably well experienced in playing music from the swing era like Miller or Goodman, maybe you can settle this for me.
I prefer ending notes just by simply ending the air vs. clipping the end of a note with the tongue, but I want it to be authentic. Do you clip the end of notes in swing-era big band music, at least on brass punches? Thanks. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2334 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:08 am Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | @zaferis, you being ex-AF and probably well experienced in playing music from the swing era like Miller or Goodman, maybe you can settle this for me.
I prefer ending notes just by simply ending the air vs. clipping the end of a note with the tongue, but I want it to be authentic. Do you clip the end of notes in swing-era big band music, at least on brass punches? Thanks. |
Short answer is Yes, when the music style calls for it.. but for beginners and generally in music, can present a bunch of negatives.
I also PM'd a longer answer to you... _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9033 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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Got the PM, thank you. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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