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victoratanazio New Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2019 Posts: 1 Location: Atlanta, Georgia
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:20 pm Post subject: Bach vs Yamaha trumpets |
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Hello guys, I'm a graduate student in trumpet performance and I wanna know if you guys agree with me in this following statement:
Bach still has the best sound but the balance of the Yamaha trumpets still ahead of Bach.
I really like Bach trumpets, the sound it's just amazing but the easiness and balance that Yamaha give me it's confusing me in what directions for equipment should I take.
Thank you everyone,
Victor Pires |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3366 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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That is a good question, and the answer will probably be 'it all depends'.
For NOW, you are a student and your choice of instrument should be whatever one will be most useful to get the most value from your trumpet training.
A big part of answering that question, is whether a particular instrument will be required or desirable in your career at a later time.
If using some instrument will be important in your professional career, then it might be a good idea to devote your 'student time' to learn how to use that instrument as well as possible. Especially if changing instruments might be difficult or especially time consuming.
What instruments are used by the 'guest soloists', 'masterclass presenters', or 'well known professionals' in your area? _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2090 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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From my perspective you should judge the horn by how easy it is to get the sound and...control...you want. The Bach and Yamaha professional trumpets are all well made, and top professional players use both.
Also, it is worth pointing out that both Bach and Yamaha offer a range of models, so it is difficult to make statements about their characteristics beyond that they are well made.
My preference is Bach Bb and C trumpets, but there are Yamaha models like the outstanding 9335NY that I know I could happily and successfully play for the rest of my playing days. |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8348 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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Always play the horn that you think plays and sounds the best. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9144 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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What these two guys said _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet |
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Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 1991 Location: WI
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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Crazy Finn wrote: | Always play the horn that you think plays and sounds the best. |
That's the conundrum here -- the OP seems to be saying that Bach sounds the best, but Yamaha plays the best . . .
I am with Dayton, though, regarding the Yamaha 9335NY. If the OP tried that horn, he might change his mind about the brand with the best sound (if he's willing to fork over upwards of four grand in US dollars, that is). |
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chrisf3000 Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2004 Posts: 347 Location: Winnipeg, Canada
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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If you're actually comparing similar models, then I would say play the horn you're more comfortable on. If all things are equal, then if you're more comfortable on one horn over the other, then you'll be a better player. So many players I know claim that "Bach has a better sound", while struggling to play in tune, for example. Personally, I find Yamaha's to be better in tune, more even in pitch, and overall easier to play, If there's a 1% difference in sound from a Bach, so be it.
As for models, I wouldn't think that the 8335 Yamaha's would be comparable to a good Bach, but the 9000 series Yamaha's (especially the Gen. 3) would be absolutely comparable. They are truly fantastic horns, both the NY and Chicago models. I'm not saying don't play Bach - if you find a good one, do it! Just make sure the instrument serves you as a musician. Play it because you feel good playing it, not just because of the name stamped on the bell. |
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improver Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 1456
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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The new Bachs are amazing. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9144 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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I posted about this on another, recent thread. I've avoided Bachs for over half a century, but I gave in and got a new 190-37 Centennial and it's just as the post above said, "amazing". The sound, intonation and versatility are great.
I don't think the former criticisms of Bachs having squirrely intonation resistance or whatever no longer hold true. The QC seems very good.
Not saying go for the Bach. Get what you like the best but you owe it to yourself to try the new Bachs as well as Yamahas. You know, of course, that "Yamahas have no soul". _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12699 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Don't let yourself get caught up in the "Bach sound", "Yamaha quality" memes that are trotted out on sites like this.
The goal is to find a horn that you can easily play and there are questions you should consider as you make your choice.
For instance you state that you like the sound of a Bach but also like the easiness and balance of the Yamaha.
Imagine yourself at the end of a long and challenging gig. How hard will you find controlling the Bach at that moment? Or the flip side, at the same moment how hard will it be to get the sound you need if the horn doesn't naturally play with the sound/timbre that you need/desire?
Perhaps there is a Bach or Yamaha model out there that gives you the best of both brands and you just haven't found it yet. Be patient and try as many different models and exemplars as possible looking for one that meets all of your wants and needs.
Part of the reputation of Bach is that they vary based on how they are built. I highly suspect that Yamaha has similar variations, just to a lesser degree due to their focus on quality. If this is true then trying many instruments is a very good idea.
Last but not least, have fun auditioning instruments. It is possible that this purchase might be the horn you play for a long time. |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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improver wrote: | The new Bachs are amazing. |
The Sachs designed C is beyond compare _________________ Bill Bergren |
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Jaw04 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015 Posts: 911 Location: Bay Area, California
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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It's subjective, just pick the one you like best overall. There's no right or wrong answer. |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2117 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Why do you limit yourself to Bach and Yamaha? Assuming you’re in the US, there is Getzen, Schilke, Shires, Del Quadro, … (and the fabulous X-13 ), all of which are in about the price range of the higher end Bach and Yamaha trumpets (yes, I know this means opening a whole other can of worms ). _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8348 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:20 am Post subject: |
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Crazy Finn wrote: | Always play the horn that you think plays and sounds the best. |
Halflip wrote: | That's the conundrum here -- the OP seems to be saying that Bach sounds the best, but Yamaha plays the best . . .
I am with Dayton, though, regarding the Yamaha 9335NY. If the OP tried that horn, he might change his mind about the brand with the best sound (if he's willing to fork over upwards of four grand in US dollars, that is). |
If one plays better and the other sounds better, then the search isn't done, yet.
Also, as another said, don't get caught up in the idea that Yamahas always play better and Bachs always sound better. Don't look at what the horn is, just figure out which one actually sounds better and which one actually plays better. And if they are two different horns, then find one that sounds almost, 95% as good but plays better. Because, generally, you sound better on horns that play better. Or keep looking.
Also, seconding the idea of not limiting yourself to Bach and Yamaha. They have more and better offerings, much more than a decade or two ago, but they aren't the only ones making good horns out there - Shires, Schilke, Schagerl, there's an old Kanstul-Besson that people talk about, Adams, etc. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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Seymor B Fudd Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015 Posts: 1491 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:53 am Post subject: |
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Which horn makes the most of your "voice"?
Horns are different, no doubt about that but the X factor is who´s behind.
My own example: two horns: Bach 190 Commercial and Yamaha 6335RC!
Bach fantastic sound, but if I may borrow from Keheulani, with me playing "squirrely" above high C; and not as warm sound as the RC; besides having played a long gig - I felt a lot fresher having played with the RC.
In so many words: I felt more at home with the RC, kinda fits my personality - a gut feeling.
So: whatever horn makes the most etc etc! _________________ Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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deleted_user_7354402 New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:28 am Post subject: |
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While I agree that the trumpet that best matches your sound concept is the best place to start, there are several considerations I might factor in:
1. Are we talking Bb trumpet? If so, go with the the one that you feel best on. If it’s Bach, go with Bach, if it’s Yamaha stick with that. All those things being said, my experience has been that which ever trumpet you played Bb on while growing up, will probably be the one you end up on after a safari. I know many pros who went on trumpet safaris and ended up on the the same model of the first pro Bach or Yamaha they started on. If you are also willing to look a little deeper, the compromise might be getting a Bach with a Malone pipe installed. Many great players have this as well.
2. If you’re going orchestral route, it might be worth keeping the Bb and C in the same family. If C is Bach, go with Bb Bach and same with Yamaha. The pitch tendencies and the time the companies took in product development can help make picking up one after playing the other more seamless. I had a great teacher who also recommended that While the BB and C trumpet tend to be easier when made by the same company, the Eb and Piccolo tend to easily translate. Thinking Yamaha Eb and Picc or if we’re going old school, matching the Schilke Picc with their Eb.
3. What are the people you are playing with in better groups playing. I loved in LA for a long time and many players gravitated to Yamaha because everyone else was playing them. Blending, tone matching etc… can be much easier when the horns are more matchy:) If you live somewhere else where the orchestra sections are all playing Bachs, I’d consider that route.
4. Whatever you decide, during the tryout process, play for every other player with them not knowing which one you’re playing. The sound they hear out front may be much different than the sound you prefer on your side of the bell. It might even help you feel more confident that your purchase is the right one.
Have fun. And good luck,. |
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