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chief757 Regular Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2021 Posts: 18 Location: St. Louis, MO
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:16 am Post subject: How am I supposed to buzz on the 19/30s exercise? |
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Hey guys. I found an exercise yesterday that is supposed to teach your chops to play relaxed and without tension. I basically play the opposite of this. My chops are extremely stiff and hard when I play. I have a certain feeling this might be why I'm not improving, and why my endurance is terrible. I know this exercise has been posted here before, and I have read the pdf on it, but I really just don't know how to get a note. I can blow air fine with no tension, but the second I bring my lips together so I can buzz, my chops stiffen. The pdf says to just let go of the air and it will make a note, but it just blows air through the instsrument. I also acknowledge there is some tension required, but the only way for me to play a note is if my face is all tight. Even doing it without the instrument, free buzzing is impossible without hardening my muscles. I regret not finding this exercise a few months ago when I got my braces off. I formed a new embouchure and that would have been the most beneficial. I have high spirits I will improve and it will take time, but I want the most out of it. Right now, this is the only thing I can think of to why I can't improve. I've had the same sound and range for months now, even when I practice every single day. Since I tense my muscles when I play, it makes them very fatigued which in turn makes me used more pressure. I more I think about it, the more I think it comes down to the chop stiffness. Also, does anyone have any videos or images of someone trying this exercise? I just want to see what exactly is happening to create the note. Thanks |
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5865 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:20 am Post subject: |
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The lips "buzz" in response to the flowing air and the note vibrating in the instrument. Try to not "try to buzz" and simply blow the air and gradually bring your lips together until a note speaks. It might not be the note you intended, but if you hear the target note in your imagination (audiation) it probably will be. From that point you jost go with that. Blow your chops into position until they know how things work. _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1871 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:22 am Post subject: Re: How am I supposed to buzz on the 19/30s exercise? |
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chief757 wrote: | Hey guys. I found an exercise yesterday that is supposed to teach your chops to play relaxed and without tension. I basically play the opposite of this. My chops are extremely stiff and hard when I play. I have a certain feeling this might be why I'm not improving, and why my endurance is terrible. |
You now have a teacher.
Your teacher has assigned you pedal tones in an attempt to help you with your excessive tension. Please follow your teacher's directions for a few months. At this point in your development, you do not have the experience to evaluate or execute the overwhelming amount of advice available on the internet.
Personally, I did not overcome my excessive tension until I spent some time learning low brass. but that was just my experience. Your teacher observes you every week and is your best source of guidance. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9144 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:29 am Post subject: |
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As a Point of Reference, could someone either explain what they're talking about, or at least post a link to it? Thanks. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
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chief757 Regular Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2021 Posts: 18 Location: St. Louis, MO
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:03 am Post subject: |
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Now that I think of it, you're right andy. While I do think the teacher I have probably dosen't have much experience of teaching, I have heard the saying "trust the training". Experimenting on my part probably isn't a good idea in general.
As for kehaulani, here you go: http://www.rustyrussell.com/1930s/1930sRev.pdf
Thanks for getting my head out of the bucket. I'll stick with the teachers instructions, however, I'll keep in the back of my mind that if this won't work out, a more professional teacher is an option. |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:44 am Post subject: |
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When I started playing again 6 years ago, I found I was using too much pressure. I ran into the link shown here and I swear by it. It got me back to relaxed playing the way I did when I was younger. It's another way of doing long tone exercises, but with a different approach. I still do it a couple of times a month along with my regular routines.
George _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9144 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, chief.
(Gad, that sucker's long. ) _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet |
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gwood66 Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 302 Location: South of Chicago
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mafields627 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2001 Posts: 3782 Location: AL
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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I had some time to kill, so I thought I would give this exercise a shot this evening. My chops are trash right now. I've pretty much reduced my playing to demonstrating for my middle school students. Holy Hades 19/30s was rough. There was shaking and warbling and the buzz randomly cutting in and out. I learned that if I wanted to do any serious playing right now it would be a total rebuild. _________________ --Matt--
No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher! |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9144 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Tell me if I've synthesized this.
Exercise: Long Tones from Middle C down to Low F#.
How: Play pitch for 30 seconds, alternating with 30 seconds of rest.
Method: keep mouth completely relaxed. Begin by exhaling air and let the sound gradually come into being. Do not do any other tension-support things, like tensing stomach, etc. Do not begin tone with a buzz. Keep mouth and neck relaxed.
Tip" It's not so much what you play but how you play.
Did I miss anything? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | Tell me if I've synthesized this.
Exercise: Long Tones from Middle C down to Low F#.
How: Play pitch for 30 seconds, alternating with 30 seconds of rest.
Method: keep mouth completely relaxed. Begin by exhaling air and let the sound gradually come into being. Do not do any other tension-support things, like tensing stomach, etc. Do not begin tone with a buzz. Keep mouth and neck relaxed.
Tip" It's not so much what you play but how you play.
Did I miss anything? |
Hmm, not really except that this is old stuff, I guess something like from 15 year ago and known by almost everybody here and practiced daily by a lot of players. I remember writing here on TH maybe six/seven years ago that I made the 19/30 into a 23/30 by adding a low F and by repeating the Eflat, the D and the Dflat because I believe that these notes with the use of the third slide need extra practice. |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:13 am Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | Tell me if I've synthesized this.
Exercise: Long Tones from Middle C down to Low F#.
How: Play pitch for 30 seconds, alternating with 30 seconds of rest.
Method: keep mouth completely relaxed. Begin by exhaling air and let the sound gradually come into being. Do not do any other tension-support things, like tensing stomach, etc. Do not begin tone with a buzz. Keep mouth and neck relaxed.
Tip" It's not so much what you play but how you play.
Did I miss anything? |
As far as I am concerned, you got it right. I should also say that I alternate the 19/30 with delano's 23/30.
George _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9144 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:21 am Post subject: |
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GeorgeB wrote: | As far as I am concerned, you got it right. | Gad, why did I spend half the evening reading through all of this?
And, yes, it's common sense but we need to keep in mind that everything is new to someone before it's not. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet |
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