Drawn-in Cheeks

deesson · Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 5:53 am Post subject: Drawn-in Cheeks

Can someone explain what it means to have drawn in cheeks.
What is actually happening? What does it look like?
What causes it?
Thanks.

BeboppinFool · Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Drawn-in Cheeks

JayKosta · Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:08 pm Post subject:

I think it might be similar to the facial expression that Morgan Freeman sometimes had -

https://soaphub.com/general-soap-operas/soap-opera-history/morgan-freeman-facts-celebrities-who-started-on-soaps/

Perhaps some students learn to
'hold cheeks in tight'
and opposed to
'prevent cheeks from relaxing or puffing out'
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american boy · Veteran Member Joined: 22 Sep 2012 Posts: 344 Location: ny

I played a few times in the late 70s with Bob McCoy,for whoever does`nt
know, was a great NY lead player and fantastic and funny person; While I never studied with him, I had friends who did, and made mention of an exercise Bob gave some of them to suck in their cheeks and hold to I guess strengthen those muscles? Might have called it the fish..But this was long ago and I might be wrong.
Again, I never studied with Bob, but I do know from several that did, that this was an important part of what he taught;
Maybe somebody on here knows about this?

JayKosta · Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:06 am Post subject:

BeboppinFool · Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:47 am Post subject:

Okay, if people are coming here to find out about the teachings of Donald S. Reinhardt, I'm pretty sure that's not what they're getting in the past few posts.

I am convinced that Doc would have never advocated for sucking in your cheeks to play. I hope Doug will get on here and reassure me that I'm speaking the truth.

If anything, he was okay with some students actually puffing their cheeks, people with smaller mouth cavities, etc.

I believe he told that story (and it's in the Reinhardt Listening Zone, Part 1 of "So You Think You Have Problems?") about the guy with blood in the wastebasket specifically as a warning that sucking in the cheeks was a bad thing.

Doug? You're on, man!
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kehaulani · Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:16 am Post subject:

Wouldn't Reinhardt just be using it to draw attention to someone who might be disadvantaged by puffing his cheeks, to emphasize that he needs to be aware of not puffing his cheeks by stating it in opposite terms?

He's not meaning to use an isometric tensing in drawing his cheeks in, just by overcompensating mentally in the extreme to meet in the middle, so to speak.
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Doug Elliott · Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:09 am Post subject:

"Overcompensating to meet in the middle" was definitely one of his techniques.

He used the terms "Area 1" and Area 2"
Area 1 is basically below the nose to the chin, and corner to corner, and muscular effort should be in that area. Area 2 was beyond that, including the cheeks, and the goal was to have Area 2 relaxed. Not necessarily to the point of puffing, but that was the general idea.

In my own teaching I like to restrict the muscular effort even a bit more, to "south of the equator" or below the lip centerline. I'm pretty sure he also used that terminology, maybe with the same intent.

deesson · Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:07 am Post subject:

After going through my lesson notes again, I read that #1, my corners were not snapping forward as they should and #2, my cheek area was too tight. To me that looks like the same problem, but was the cheek tightness causing the corners to stay back or was I pulling the corners back and causing the cheek tension? I guess that doesn't really matter.
I agree with Doug when he says, "I like to restrict the muscular effort even a bit more, to "south of the equator" or below the lip centerline."
Thanks to all who replied.

JoshMizruchi · Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:00 pm Post subject:

I would say pulling your corners back would probably be the cause of the cheek tension. Pulling the corners back is the root of a lot of problems.

Finding out why you're pulling your corners back and fixing it may help you overcome this issue. I'd try to practice with slow inhalations if you aren't already. Remember to form, place, inhale, play, in that order.

I haven't experienced this issue per-se, but I've bitten the inside of my cheeks while playing a couple times before. For me, finding my legs seemed to help with that a lot.
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