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Locutus2k Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 635 Location: Rome, Italy
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:45 am Post subject: Bach Commercial: should i buy one? |
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In my arsenal the Bach New York limited edition is the trumpet that gets more playing time. I really love that horn (except for the golden slides but for an aesthetic factor) and i've found that blends well in any situation from legit to big band lead.
I'm very tempted by the Bach Commercial, especially the ML silver version. I have no real need of another trumpet but this one keeps getting my attention.
I ask owners, especially the ones who had a chance to play a NY too, to talk me into buying or not.
Thanks in advance. _________________ ------------------------
Edwards X-13
Lawler TL5 Balanced 30th Anniversary (#2 of 5)
Lawler TL5 L bore
Bach NY Special edition 2008
Flugel Van Laar Oiram Ack
Mark Curry mouthpieces
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3836 Location: Greece
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:57 am Post subject: |
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I believe that is a fantastic horn and you must buy it immediately....π and also you must sell to me your TL5-1A balanced to get some extra money and avoid wifes complaints π
Let's get serious now , at first I hope you are fine my friend, I recently try this horn and even I am not a Bach guy I really like it , is like my favorite TL5-1A with a little more core to the sound , if this horn had a reverse leadpipe it was be my next horn for sure.
Remember that if you ever want to sell the balanced I will get at the same time.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2362 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:23 am Post subject: |
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Love mine.. for several reasons. I'm a Bach player, have been for many years. I was fortunate to play a variety of instruments as a USAF Bandsman, so had lots to compare. (Yamaha, Getzen, Calicchio, Kanstul, Taylor, Benge, Monette, Marcinkiewicz, and more)
For me it feels like a Bach, but leans toward that commercial sound, notably up top. So there is that comfort level.
I have a 190S37 50th anniversary and the LT190L1B in my kit... love them both.
I would go for the Large bore, or at least check one out. I don't think it feel like a large bore instrument, certainly not a large bore C. I found the ML to be a tick on the restrictive side (but that's my memory from 8-9 years ago).
If you have doubts or want to look at another excellent commercial trumpet, when I bought the LT190L1B, I had a Destino III in my hands, and had my eye on a Blackburn Jericho, the decision for me came down to $$.. for the price of the Destino, I ended up buying 2 Bachs _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2492
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:50 am Post subject: |
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----Posted twice for some reason---- _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
Last edited by OldSchoolEuph on Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2492
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:50 am Post subject: |
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This isn't something you should be having others decide for you. Those who mesh well with one will say "of course", those who don't will say "heck no".
It's obviously a top notch instrument, the question is will it give you something more in your toolbox, or just drain your wallet. You need to try one. That may mean spending some money to travel, but at the price of one of these horns (assuming you mean new), and what you will lose if you turn around and sell it, spending a little to try it is just buying insurance against a much larger loss. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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Locutus2k Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 635 Location: Rome, Italy
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:08 am Post subject: |
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OldSchoolEuph wrote: | You need to try one.. |
Unfortunately i'm in Italy and at this moment i can't find a store to try one. It will be a blind buy on Thomann but i have 30 days to send it back without giving explanations. Anyway first of all i'm a "Bach guy". Played a 37 for 10+ years, owned 2 Artisan (i've been forced to sell both but i regret it) and now i play often a Bach New York 7 LE. I love the Bach sound and feel.
giakara wrote: | Remember that if you ever want to sell the balanced I will get at the same time. |
For some reason i can't part with that trumpet. I've also discovered that i don't like (well ... i like less) reverse leadpipes but that one is so gorgeous i can't let her go. But don't worry if that moment will come you'll be the first to know! Best of luck my friend! _________________ ------------------------
Edwards X-13
Lawler TL5 Balanced 30th Anniversary (#2 of 5)
Lawler TL5 L bore
Bach NY Special edition 2008
Flugel Van Laar Oiram Ack
Mark Curry mouthpieces
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9195 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:49 am Post subject: |
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If you like Bachs, that takes part of the conversation, already. I have a "Commercial" and love it.
It has a commercial sound, especially, above the staff. And yet it doesn't lose a warmth in the regular range.
I've never been impressed very much by cosmetics, but I definitely would not make it silver because it has a bronze bell and blending this into the brass on the horn is beautiful.
Also, regarding reverse leadpipe. According to Dave Kessler, who knows Bachs well, reverse lead pipes on Bachs are overrated. They don't make that much of a difference.
One other thing. It is normal to heavier weight. I love my Bach but am considering exchanging it for a Benge, just because of its weight, But, I am a multiple stroke victim and things are heavier for me than for others. I'm just saying this so if you see the Bach eliminated from my signature block and Benge in its place, you'll know it's not because pf any deficiency in the
Bsch.
https://youtu.be/-g8nrODlZts _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Adams A-9 Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Getzen Capri Cornet (for sale). |
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Locutus2k Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 635 Location: Rome, Italy
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:37 am Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: |
I've never been impressed very much by cosmetics, but I definitely would not make it silver because it has a bronze bell and blending this into the brass on the horn is beautiful.
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Yes, you're right, the lacquer version is really eye-catching, love that bronze bell, but i have a thing with silver, everytime i've had a lacquer trumpet i was regretting not to take the silver one because (in my mind) silver trumpets have more brilliance and resonance. _________________ ------------------------
Edwards X-13
Lawler TL5 Balanced 30th Anniversary (#2 of 5)
Lawler TL5 L bore
Bach NY Special edition 2008
Flugel Van Laar Oiram Ack
Mark Curry mouthpieces
------------------------ |
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Yamahaguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 3992
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:47 am Post subject: |
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Locutus2k wrote: | but i have a thing with silver, everytime i've had a lacquer trumpet i was regretting not to take the silver one because (in my mind) silver trumpets have more brilliance and resonance. | There are some good debates on this...but for me, completely agree with the brilliant sound of silver plating. |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3836 Location: Greece
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:40 am Post subject: |
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Yamahaguy wrote: | Locutus2k wrote: | but i have a thing with silver, everytime i've had a lacquer trumpet i was regretting not to take the silver one because (in my mind) silver trumpets have more brilliance and resonance. | There are some good debates on this...but for me, completely agree with the brilliant sound of silver plating. |
+1
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2492
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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Locutus2k wrote: | (in my mind) silver trumpets have more brilliance and resonance. |
The qualifier is key. It's in your mind when you hear with your eyes.
Since switching to a very hard and very thin catalyzed epoxy clear coat, lacquer has had no measurable damping effect on Bach brass - unlike the older, thicker, softer nitrocellulose lacquer. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9195 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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According to (is it) Brett Gezten, there is no difference in sound. In former years, the lacquer was thicker, which had a dampening effect, and there was a difference in sounds. Not now.
This me, not Brett - can it be a variation of the Placebo Effect? That the player expects to have a certain sound and his body adjusts to produce that sound?
at any rate, of course, get the horn that pleases you the most. (But the lacquered one is mighty pretty. ) _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Adams A-9 Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Getzen Capri Cornet (for sale). |
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Rod Haney Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2015 Posts: 937
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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OldSchoolEuph wrote: | Locutus2k wrote: | (in my mind) silver trumpets have more brilliance and resonance. |
The qualifier is key. It's in your mind when you hear with your eyes.
Since switching to a very hard and very thin catalyzed epoxy clear coat, lacquer has had no measurable damping effect on Bach brass - unlike the older, thicker, softer nitrocellulose lacquer. |
I have a trumpet (Eclipse) with a sheet Britannia silver bell >97% pure, myself and quite a few pros who have played it say itβs one of the most even and powerful horns they have ever touched. One pro played mine at the shop and immediately ordered its twin when he hit the states. I believe silver makes a big difference! Power to SILVER!!!
RodπΆβπ«οΈ |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9195 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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So, he friendly says, you know more about trumpet construction than Getzen O.K. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Adams A-9 Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Getzen Capri Cornet (for sale). |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 1049 Location: Europe
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:18 am Post subject: |
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To quote a famous fictional wizard: 'Just because it's all in your head doesn't mean it's not real.'
It's often said that a big part of playing the trumpet is mental. So while it matters that it doesn't make a difference, if it does for the person playing it, why not take advantage of that? The placebo effect gets a bad rep because it makes people feel gullible. But tricking yourself into sounding better...well, why not?
The one caveat is that one should be wary about propagating misinformation of course. The thing with placebo effects is that they are very personal and easy to dispel through blind tests. That should be taken into account before sharing advice.
In my own case (intentionally poor pun), I have a trumpet case that helps me play better. It's a cool case, that makes my instrument look even cooler. Does it affect how the trumpet plays? Well, physically no...but it makes the horn look so cool I can't help but smile everytime I open the case. So does it improve my playing? Totally yes. |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7016 Location: AZ
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:08 am Post subject: |
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β90% of trumpet playing is mental. The other half is practice.β
~Yogi Berratone _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 739 Location: SE US
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:18 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, my grandpa said, "if it doesn't happen in your mind first, it doesn't happen..."! Can't remember what he was referring to specifically. Oh yes, I remember now, never mind!
Mike _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
β92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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