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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 870 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2022 7:40 pm Post subject: Lets talk King Liberty Models.. |
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I know we touched briefly on this in some of my other threads, but I would like to delve deeper into it. Im still trying to learn the differences between the different King Liberty models through the H.N. White era.
There was the original King Liberty model from 1920-1932 that looks like this
then we have the Liberty #2
Next we have the 2b
next we have this model and I m not sure what it is, but seems to be the last iteration.
Now how do the sounds compare between the different models? My cornet restoration should finish at the end of the month and I can start looking for my next horn and I am thinking of the Liberty. I think it would add a different sound to my current H.N. White horns as well as add to my collection. _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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Mac Gollehon Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Feb 2014 Posts: 264
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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2022 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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The Liberty 2B is the most pronounced difference in Liberty models. So much so that I don’t understand why they used the Liberty model name. It is so different from the other Liberty models. My personal opinion is that the Liberty from 1926-1932 are some of the most outstanding trumpets ever built if you find them in excellent condition. Only problem is most tend to overblow them because of the effortless response and try to add more which defeats the purpose. |
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Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 2017 Location: WI
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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2022 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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Mac Gollehon wrote: | The Liberty 2B is the most pronounced difference in Liberty models. So much so that I don’t understand why they used the Liberty model name. It is so different from the other Liberty models. |
+1
If you refer to this link:
http://www.hnwhite.com/Trumpet%20Page.htm
you will see that the one you refer to as the "last iteration" is considered "#3" in the Liberty evolutionary lineage (they call it the "Balanced" model, even though the valve block does not appear to be offset), while the 2B is treated as a completely separate design with its own heading. Furthermore, the Liberty #1/#2/Balanced series appears to have settled on a bore size of .448" (after the first iteration), while the 2B was always .458" (there was also a "3B" for a while with a bore size of .468"). _________________ "He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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edfitzvb Regular Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Posts: 19 Location: Woodlawn, VA
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Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:53 am Post subject: |
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I was gifted a Liberty Balanced (#3) trumpet when I lived in Virginia Beach. On that trumpet the valves were moved toward the bell as compared to other trumpets I owned. It was built like a tank... thick brass, fairly narrow wrap when compared to other horns I owned at the time. It had a GREAT sound and was an excellent choice for playing in church with the choir because, although the brilliance cut through nicely, the .445 bore kept it from overpowering as much as my ML or L bore horns did. When I moved away I gifted it to a promising young player in the church who also played trumpet. I would love to have another. It was a very fine horn. The old H.N. White horns really were well made _________________ 1954 Olds Super Frankenhorn (LA)
Olds Recording 1968
1965 Bach Stradivarius Model 37
1957 Getzen Power Bore Trumpet
Conn 80A Cornet
Olds Special cornet (LA)
Yamaha Xeno Chicago C trumpet
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn |
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Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 2017 Location: WI
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Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 8:14 am Post subject: |
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edfitzvb wrote: | On that trumpet the valves were moved toward the bell as compared to other trumpets I owned. |
Good to know! In pictures I've seen, the offset doesn't look as pronounced as what I see on a Selmer Balanced Model or an Olds Recording. _________________ "He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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jon_norstog Veteran Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2012 Posts: 176 Location: Portland OR
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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I've got a near-mint Art Deco "silvertone" Liberty. Last time I played it regularly was when my Silver Sonic was in the shop. It has more resitance than the free-blowing Sonic, but is a lot easier to get around above the staff.
I had a regular Liberty, also an art deco model that I played full time, before I got the Sonic. It was kind of ratted out - when I got it it was so full of snoose it would hardly blow. Sold that one.
The sterling silver Liberty has a sound like no other IMHO.
jn _________________ toot, toot! |
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EdMann Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 2484 Location: The Big Valley
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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I've had my 1928 King Lib for over a decade, shared with the late Billy Lamb (Buddy Rich, TOP) and we both love it. The response, intonation, sound, incredible. Hard to beat with any set up. And they're the best bargain in brass.
ed _________________ 29 NY Bach 6/6
46 Martin Cmte
61 Bach MV ML
70 Bach 37
73 Bach 43
32 Olds Std
42 Olds Super
54 Olds Rcdg
52 Selmer 24A
30 Holton 48 Lleyw
37 Conn 12B
23 Conn 22B
28 King Lib
46 Conn 80A crnt
1960 & 1868 Besson Flugs
60 King 2B bone |
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RETrumpet Veteran Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2021 Posts: 210
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:13 am Post subject: |
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I have a 1924ish Liberty (SN 64xxx) that I don't play much, but I do enjoy it when I do. The .445 bore and small bell really give it a compact sound and delivers a vintage dance band character.
It seems to like a mouthpiece with a smaller throat, so I don't usually use my Monettes, although a Silver 2 is passable. Instead I go with a Curry 2BC, or even just a Bach 3C.
I definitely agree with Mac Gollehon. Being used to larger equipment, it's really easy to overblow my Liberty. I find that if I approach it a little more like a high horn and blow a bit more "at it" and less "through it" then it really sings. _________________ Bb: FrankenBach, '72 Committee, Conn 22B, King 2070SGX
C: Bach 229-MK slide/pipe, Bach 226 with YTR-9445(2) pipe
D/Eb: Bach 239 with YTR-9636 pipe
Picc: Stomvi Master, Couesnon Monopole
Cornet: Schilke A2C, '23 Buescher
Flugel: Scodwell Prototype |
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