Oh Happy Day

dave · Regular Member Joined: 31 Jan 2002 Posts: 19

I can do the roll in. (Only took two years!) (The roll out came easy for me.) Now, how about some suggestions to open up the sound while rolled in and improve flexibility (especially while rolled in.)

bent trumpet · Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 1:18 pm Post subject:

Two years?!!!! I am getting discouraged, and it hasn't been a month of struggling. This is my 3rd attempt at the BE. The first 2 times, I just could not do the roll in, so I gave it up after a few days. I keep getting drawn back to the testimonials in this forum. I think this time I will stick with it, as I am recognizing some improvement in my regular playing.
I know the system works faster for some people, but has anyone found no improvement from using the BE after years of implementation?

SteelyDan · Regular Member Joined: 14 Dec 2003 Posts: 37

Bent trumpet,
I can understand your frustration, believe me. My roll-in didn't really "click" until I found where my optimum "buzz-point" actually was; perhaps you're facing a similar situation? My last teacher was such a big believer in a central mouthpiece position that I was trying to force myself to continue playing in a manner that was simply not working for me: Whenever I practiced the lip-clamp-squeak, I was very aware of the fact that the squeak was ocurring in a spot that is right of center on my mouth. In spite of this, I was trying to force it to occur in the center of my mouth. Notice I specifically wrote "force"; since the squeak was naturally occurring in a different spot than I was used to, it took me a while to accept the idea that it's okay to play a little bit off-center. As a matter of fact, I believe that Jeff addressed this same phenomenon in the BE book. Some experimentation may be needed to figure out where your optimum buzz-point is; I believe that once you know where you can prodeuce the squeak with the least amount of effort you will be better able to produce a tone with the roll-in. Furthermore, if you feel air pockets beginning to form right underneath your lips don't fight them. When I stopped fighting the air pockets(not like Dizzy) is when the roll-in really started happening with a natural ease for me. It's definitely a different "feel" than what I was used to.
If any more experienced players see that I have misquoted or incorrectly described the BE method, by all means correct my inaccuracies. Thanks.
Dave, I wish I had some more specific advice other than referring you back to the BE excercises and encouraging you to stick with it. Perhaps some of the more knowledgeable members can be of service.
Thanks to all for your contributions to this forum.

Sincerely,
Dan

jarrelainen · Veteran Member Joined: 20 Aug 2003 Posts: 264

I by no means claim to be good at this but thought that I'd share my experience of the roll-in/lip clamp squeak.

It's easy for me to get a pretty good roll-out sound but the roll-in is tougher, but one thing that I'd noticed so far is that for me atleast blowing air pockets under both lips helps tremendously, just roll in the lips above your closed teeth, blow so that Your lips "swell".
You might also try to do the no.5 exercise on page 84 in the BE book...

It atleast for me, produces an air hiss, that sometimes turns into a squeak if I don't conciously "hunt" for it, not in the center of the lips but just to the right or left of the middle...pretty often that is.

Take one day off every week, atleast don't overdo the squeaking, muscles get tired and need rest to recover and too much of it might even hinder progress.

I'm also quite new to this, but believe in this system since it has allready cleaned up my sound a lot!
Another thing that I consider to be of great benefit is tonguing on lips.
I can't say enough about all the positive spin-offs it has had on my playing!!

So, all things in the "BE diet"

as mentioned in earlier posts are important.

Take care, JK

trumpetjunkie · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Jan 2003 Posts: 622

It took me about a week of trying to get the roll in.

All I can say is stick with it- read the testimonials and plow on. Right now I am really really enjoying taking everything up an octave, and my sound is starting to actually get decent up there... so I'm really having a blast. Several times I almost quit BE cause I thought it was out there and weird and wouldn't help me in the real world... but man! A year ago I was struggling with a g above staff, now I'm struggling with the G an octave above that! Dude! Just talking about it makes me want to get back to my horn and take 'er up an octave! STICK WITH IT! Patience and practice.

Bruce Lee · Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:11 am Post subject:

From Jeff's book...

TXBD · Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:13 am Post subject:

dave, bent, others,

Let me share some of my experiences and, hopefully, some insight. For some reason, I didn't find the lip clamp squeak to be difficult. I squeaked all across the surface of my lips at first, but eventually was able to better focus it in the center. Keep in mind that the Lip Clamp is an exercise to activate a specific set of muscles (BE p.80). I think our trumpet personality causes us to REALLY squeeze the lips tightly. In order to go to the next step and get a squeak, you may have to relax a little, but not so much as to lose the roll-in setting. Also, I never felt comfortable with getting an air hiss, then placing the mouthpiece on the lips for Roll-in #1. I start with the mouthpiece in place and blow air to start the pitch. In a lesson I had with Jeff, he said this was OK.

Each time I post here, I try to emphasize PATIENCE. I believe this is the key to success with BE. Best of luck!

Billy Marquis

fox · Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 9:52 am Post subject:

I find the lip squeak to be difficult the day after a performance. I use a lot of pressure and have only been doing BE for just over a month. My playing mashes in my existing roll-in, open, unbalanced embouchure (ERIOUE?) so things tend to get too stiff. I think what happens is my lower lip tends to tuck under during regular performance/practice. So during my lip clamp, I have to remind myself to stick my lower lip out and up just a little bit in order to get a good squeak.

Jeff states in the book that students must experiment to get some things to work properly. Lower lip awareness seems to work for me on the lip squeak. If you're having squeak challenges, try it out. Just a very small adjustment can make a big difference.

Any one else experience this?

Doug

HJ · Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 2:12 am Post subject:

Dave,

What I am interested in is if after those two years of trying to play rolled in: did your embouchure feel exactly the same after those two years? I mean: do you still play exactly like you did two years ago? I cannot imagine this. The nice thing I found out about BE is that even if the roll-in or roll-out or whatever exercise does not sound well, or does not sound at all, your lips eventually move more or less in the right direction. So, I think your embouchure must have changed in the right direction even if you couldn't play rolled in for two years.

Billy, you say:
-Also, I never felt comfortable with getting an air hiss, then placing the mouthpiece on the lips for Roll-in #1. I start with the mouthpiece in place and blow air to start the pitch.

This is exactly what I do. I started to do it with the air hiss, but this did not work great. I also have some students who cannot do it any other way. The only important thing is that the initial lip position is the lip clamp, so that your lips are really rolled in.

I had a short period where I could not do the roll-in anymore after a year or so. In this period I reverted back to the method in the book, with the air hiss. This helped me to get it back again. Now I again do it 'your way', and I am still trying to tongue it. So, I believe experimenting a little is not a bad thing, and if something does not work, go back a few steps. Read the book again and try it a different way.

Bert