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Shires vs Schilke



 
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Kennyg2019
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:24 am    Post subject: Shires vs Schilke Reply with quote

In terms of playability (slotting, intonation, etc) how do the Shires trumpets compare with the Schilke trumpets?

I’m especially interested in how the CVLA-L compares with the B3, but any general insights are welcome!

Thanks!

Ken
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you compare the Schilke Custom Series (B, X) and the Shires A, B and (most) C models, I think you'll find that the Shires horns tend to have tighter slotting and more "core" to the sound (as you would with the corresponding Bach models).

Some players will thus find it easier to play in tune with the Shires horns due to the more defined slots, and others will delight in the easier...latitude...offered by the Schilke horns.

Really, just a difference in design philosophy leading to wonderfully different, fantastic horns.
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Kennyg2019
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. I love the bright sound of my B3 Beryllium (especially with the Reeves mouthpiece), but as a comeback player, I could probably use a little more help with the slotting. A better player could really make this horn sing!
However, I'm not a big fan of Bach trumpets for some reason. I find them too "heavy" in the way they feel in hand and play. I'm hoping the Shires can help with the slotting without feeling cumbersome. We shall see...
I did play a Yamaha Custom something that slotted beautifully yet was very nimble. It was just too warm-sounding for me in the middle and low registers. I need to try a Shires CVLA-L and see what happens.
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you like your B3, you might consider the S or HD series. You'll likely find slotting and intonation to be easier; some more core to the sound as well. Different blow though compared to the B series horns.

The Shires CVLA models will certainly come closer to what you are looking for compared to the Shires A and B models -- which are closer to the Bach style that you don't like.

Shires horns are fantastic (as are Schike). I don't want to steer you away, but there are other horns you might want to consider in addition to the Shires: Yamaha 8335LAII, Getzen 900DLX, Adams A5 come to mind as offering something "transitional."

Also, worth noting that mouthpiece gap can have a significant impact on slotting. Is your Reeves mouthpiece cut for Sleeves? If so, you could experiment with that a bit to see if you can dial in the feel you are looking for.
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Kennyg2019
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm looking for a really bright-sounding trumpet with better slotting. I fear that core=warm, which is what I don't want. I tried the LA and the OZ and they had lots of core in the middle register. Now for players who live in the stratosphere, like Bobby and Wayne, that's probably a good thing. But, for someone who plays mainly in the staff, it sounds too warm to me.
I tried an Adams A2...same thing. I will look into the A5...as well as the Getzen 900DLX. (The Edwards X13 was super-corish!)
And, yes, I have the Reeves cut for sleeves (with 3 gaps) arriving today!
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Croquethed
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kenny, if you're looking at the 900 DLX and want bright, you might also try a side-by-side with the 900 Eterna Classic. I have one, as well as a 907 Proteus and an X-13, and the Classic is like a jet fighter compared to the performance sports sedans of the other two.
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Croquethed wrote:
Kenny, if you're looking at the 900 DLX and want bright, you might also try a side-by-side with the 900 Eterna Classic. I have one, as well as a 907 Proteus and an X-13, and the Classic is like a jet fighter compared to the performance sports sedans of the other two.

/\ THIS /\
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2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
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Kennyg2019
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put a call in to Getzen. Dave Serber is on vacation till next week. I will call him back and talk about these two trumpets. Thanks

PS I tried the Reeves 3.5 sleeve just now and it seems to help with the slotting. I will experiment with the three sleeves they sent me (3, 3.5 and 4) and see how it goes. Fingers crossed 🤞🏻 because I love the brilliant tone of the B3 Beryllium!
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Kennyg2019
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The sleeves help the slotting issue somewhat but not enough for me to end the trumpet safari at this point. I placed an order for a CVLA-L. It should arrive in about 3 months.
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Shark01
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I have a question about these comparisons between traditional commercial brands like Schilke, Bach, Yamaha and the newer commercial brands. Please keep in mind my foundation on these issues was set 40 some odd years ago and I had a 25 year vacation, so there are so many brands now I’ve never heard of.

While I understand that boutique low volume manufacturers (Blackburn, Thein, etc) can make horns of equal quality (not just manufacturing quality, but everything that makes for great trumpets) or better, are the newer commercial brands really comparable or is it more about a value proposition? You know, similar to comparing a Corvette versus a Lamborghini.
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Move your sports car analogy to racing.

Every car has a little bit different aero. What is the pitch of the steering rack, the angle of the wheel relative to the seat? What is the CoF of the tires and what temperature are they at, what temp is the track? Don't forget the brakes, and the pedal that controls them.....High end trumpets will be "OK" or "perfect" for an individual, based not just on the horn, but on the person and what they want from the horn.

"Great" is subjective, and it is personal. It's never a brand thing.
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Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
are the newer commercial brands really comparable or is it more about a value proposition?


I can only speak of a few of the "new" non-boutique brands: Adams and Shires. Both make fine horns of comparable quality to Bach and Schilke.

As a matter of personal preference, I wasn't drawn to any of the horns in the Adams lineup aside from the A5, which I owned and liked, but every Adams model that I played was unquestionably well made. [They've updated a few models since I last played them.]

Regarding Shires, I haven't played a Bb, C or Eb/D model that I didn't like. [On the Bb side, haven't played the AHW, BLW or a few of the C models.] Build quality was uniformly excellent. As a big fan of the Bach 18037/19037, I nonetheless recommend that anyone considering those horns also try the Shires A models. They're that good.
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