1937 Vincent Bach New York SN 4120 - Design Specifications

[codyhayes]

Hello everybody!

I know there is a vast knowledge base of information among trumpet-Herald users (kudos!). Wondering if you guys and gals can help me learn some more about my new horn 🤠

I recently purchased Vincent Bach Stradivarius Serial Number 4120. For reference, here are some photos of #4120 🎺🤓
https://photos.app.goo.gl/g7b243XkSn5a5vHN7

(photos include shop card which was kindly provided after emailing a request to shopcards@connselmer.com)

I'm also seeking additional information/details regarding bell models and bell mandrels to better understand the component parts of this instrument.

#4120 is marked 10-53 on the bell, and also stamped 51; The mouthpiece receiver is marked with the number 8.

I would like to understand what these specifications mean. I know that 10-53 refers to the model 10 Bell and the bore of the instrument being 0.453 which was a medium bore at the time.

Bell:
I understand the model of this bell is number 10, but I would like to know what other bell models were in production at the time this trumpet was manufactured and how the design of the number 10 bell is different from the other bell models available at the time (e.g. I learned recently that Bell number 25 was also manufactured at the time). Do the bell models manufactured in 1935 (10, 25) correlate to modern bell numbers (e.g. 37, 43, 72)?

I believe the number 51 refers to the gauge of the bell but I would like to know more about what measurement 51 may correlate with (i.e. does 51 correlate to the thickness of the sheet of material used to produce the Bell?) and also what gauges were manufactured at that time. i.e. what gauges were used to indicate standard, lightweight, or heavyweight materials?

I would also like to know the composition of the bell material, if that information is available. Were different variations available?

Receiver / Lead Pipe:
What does the number eight stamped on the mouthpiece receiver refers to?

Other Measurements:
The first and second valves are worn and may need to be rebuilt in the future. At this time, there is no significant leak down and the instrument is still in great playing condition! Are designed specifications available for this instrument? Are there measurements available for the Pistons and valve casings?

Thanks!

Cody Hayes: [🎺 🏌️ ⚖️ 😁]
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[yourbrass]

Here ya go:

https://bachloyalist.com/
_________________
"Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/

[interfx]

51 = 0.51mm = 0.020”

Bach created a hybrid of the 7 & 10 bells, stamped 7-10 that later became known as the 25 bell, common for large bore Bach’s of today. The 10 bell was also used on large bore NY trumpets in that era.

How does it play?
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[OldSchoolEuph]

The 10-53 marking is indicating that the bell mandrel is a 10, and the bore size is .453". The 51 designation for the bell brass is a bit unusual, but apparently someone rounded the .020" conversion to 0.51mm (which would be standard rounding). As it is American yellow brass (70/30), the supplier would have published the spec in inches, thus the conversion to Bach's accustomed metric would naturally wind up as .51.

You will notice that the card indicates a 1937 build, not 1935, but the bells in production at the time were pretty much the same. In the later 30s, Bach built a lot of 7s, 10s, and 31s, favoring the .453" and .459" bores, and 25s ("7-10"), and 26s favoring the .462" bore. A lot of 38s were built as ML bore long cornets as well as a few trumpets. There were also a lesser number of his old mainstream bell choice, the 6 bell.

The 7 and 31 bells were a bit brighter, the 25 & 26 more tempered, and the 6 and 38 rounded out the darker (not dark by modern standards) end of the offerings.

I have never had a chance to play a 10 bell, but I assume based on the effect it had on the 7 in the form of the 25, it must be darker - perhaps more like a 6(?)

As indicated, the "8" is the leadpipe mandrel number - one of the earlier ones. It is pretty rare, so I dont know if anyone has ever mapped an 8. Given what they seem to be paired with I might guess (emphasize GUESS) that it is a faster taper, "more open" leadpipe - but really that should be investigated (we would all like to know)

As for specs, Jim Becker at Osmon Music is the best bet for knowing the standard dimensions of that time. The "Except Tight" note on valve fit is meaningless. Bach shop cards only had precision measurements for valve fit for a brief period (during which the Chicago Cs were made).
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20

[codyhayes]

Thank you everybody for your comments, very helpful!
_________________
Cody Hayes: [🎺 🏌️ ⚖️ 😁]
¢0π$ü£+ ---> call.hayesesquire.com
Dial ---> (6ix Oh Too) Thr3e Se7en Thre3-Ei8ht 4or Eig8t 5ive
Type ---> cody@hayesesquire.com
Zoom ---> zoom.hayesesquire.com
Think ---> goodness.hayesesquire.com