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herpderp Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 140
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herpderp Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 140
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:07 am Post subject: |
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I ordered some of this oil out of curiosity.
Once my horn is cleaned and switched over I'll report back with how this works for me. |
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Tom LeCompte Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 3341 Location: Naperville, Illinois
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:34 am Post subject: |
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When I was a lad, nanotechnology was called "chemistry". |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12664 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Are these the same nanobots that Bill Gates is using in the vaccine? (Joke) |
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dstpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1286
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:16 am Post subject: |
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So, they sell the same oil for rotary and piston valves. Hmm. I see one of the two "founders" of the company is a horn player...
https://proelitemusic.com
https://proelitemusic.com/our-team/
I guess it's the graphene component which allows it to be just as effective with either application, so I googled "graphene" and came up with a little info...that it was to be the "next best discovery" in 2004 but that the hype has been challenged since. I then watched a 2018 YouTube video about this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IesIsKMjB4Y
One viewer writes:
Deja
5 months ago (edited)
"Graphene... Yeah it's 2022 now. It'll be 2023 soon. So far it's been used in batteries primarily, less so in circuit boards, it has been prototyped in the medical industry though! They figured they could make little low powered nanobots that will be made primarily of graphene, letting them charge as they travel through your body, no clue if that research actually went anywhere."
I did a search on that page for "valve oil" and didn't get any results. I can't believe the rest of the world; don't they know that trumpets are the most important thing in life!?!?!?!?
Still, I'll probably buy a bottle directly from their website, especially since they are located within 15-20 miles from me...just being neighborly...and will report my findings as well. (I just hope that if I don't like it, that I can easily remove it and go back to oiling valves every day!) |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1831 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:32 am Post subject: |
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Let's see - I have clear regular oil, blue regular oil, classic synthetic oil, regular synthetic oil, oil with Silicone, oil with Teflon - of course I will by a bottle.
I'm always looking for the best oil for 2nd valves that only stick in the middle of a solo.( I'm ready to zap one horn with Vita-Rays and Gamma Rays.) |
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Croquethed Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2013 Posts: 614 Location: Oakville, CT
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:27 am Post subject: |
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Andy Cooper wrote: | ( I'm ready to zap one horn with Vita-Rays and Gamma Rays.) |
Have you tried Vitameatavegamin? I hear it worked on Ricky Ricardo's horn sections really well. |
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dstpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1286
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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I received a couple of bottles of Pro Elite valve oil today and have applied to a 2019 Bach Cleveland C (that I plan to list to sell this week) and the Bach 37* (lightweight) that I bought this summer at ITG. I have been using Ultra Pure for the past few years, and one big reason for me is because it does not have any scent. (I have a sensitive sniffer.) The Bach C had just been thoroughly cleaned, so the valves were ready as they could be. The Bach Bb required wiping down the valves and swabbing the casings. The immediate results? BEST VALVE OIL I HAVE EVER USED!!!...and the best results I've ever gotten on any Bach! Well, you can give it a try and report back here, too. I will by applying to other horns tomorrow and will give it a little time to check out its longevity. This graphene component may be making a big difference in performance. We shall see how it goes over time.
Note about a few details on the product: The bottle is rather small (0.5 oz.). My Ultra Pure bottle is 2 oz., so this is 25% of what I can normally buy for the price of one bottle of Pro Elite (and even less if I compare to the Ultra Pure Refill bottle size). Notice also that it has a needle tip applicator, which I really like(!), BUT the oil comes out rather fast, so I'd suggest all to be careful when applying. It is a "runny" oil, so again, it comes out fast. BUT if it continues to give these results, and lasts longer as advertized, then I may be a customer for life. Again...we'll see in time. |
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herpderp Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 140
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:10 am Post subject: |
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I was waiting on some fancy cleaner, but I might just use some Dawn and make the switch. Glad it's working out well. Please update us in a few weeks to let us know how it's going. |
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dstpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1286
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 2:11 am Post subject: |
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One week evaluation:
I've noticed the importance of daily cleaning the valves and casings on any newer instruments (finding that grayish residue when wiping down valves and casings). On a couple of newer instruments, I've cleaned and reverted to (the less expensive) Ultra Pure oil that I'd been using and will follow my now daily regimen of cleaning and reapplying Ultra Pure until the valve break-in process is complete. At that point, I'll switch over completely to the pricier Pro Elite Oil and see how it performs over time.
One thing is for sure on the horns I've applied it: the performance is outstanding...but I have a lot of horns, and most of my playing is on a select few horns, so this process of especially long-term performance evaluation will take some time. |
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dstpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1286
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2022 4:57 am Post subject: |
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Two week evaluation:
The Bach 37* (lightweight) that I got at ITG 2022 has been my main Bb tpt since I bought it 4.5 months ago. This and my custom Adams F2 flugel (received: April 2021) are what I'm using in our present show The Secret of My Success. I've been liberally applying this oil to both horns after wiping valves and swabbing casings beforehand. The immediate results are incredible...very fast & free valves, almost like they are "riding on air," so to speak. Unfortunately, I'm experiencing slightly sluggish performance after a couple of hours or so. Really weird. Yesterday, I sent a picture to a brass technician of the Bach 1st valve stuck in a half-way position during practice!
As I've cleaned valves each day, I've seen less and less grayish matter, down to barely any, on the Bach, to the point that I feel that the bulk of the break-in period is past. (It would have been much sooner, but I've been playing various horns up until the need to lock in on one for this show run.) I thoroughly cleaned the horn a few days ago, so I don't think there is something residual inside, but with slide lubricants and saliva, things can happen, so I'll continue to monitor those things and my valve stroke. As we've read in other such TH posts, it could be any number of things. |
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Ronnman Veteran Member
Joined: 09 Aug 2019 Posts: 409 Location: SE Louisiana
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2022 5:56 am Post subject: |
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Herpderp - Can you provide your experience since you have switched to this oil?
dstps - Thanks for your detailed results.
Thanks,
Ron _________________ Martin Committee #2 1954
Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Olds Custom Crafted Ultra Sonic 1974
Edwards Gen II 2014 |
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herpderp Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 140
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Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think I have enough experience to say anything for sure- I think this would work better on instruments with newer close tolerance valves. I applied it to a selmer radial with pretty great valves and it did not work well for it. I'm back to ultra pure regular.
I would bet with some modern tight tolerance valves this might work much better. |
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Ronnman Veteran Member
Joined: 09 Aug 2019 Posts: 409 Location: SE Louisiana
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Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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Herpderp - Thanks for your feedback.
Ron _________________ Martin Committee #2 1954
Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Olds Custom Crafted Ultra Sonic 1974
Edwards Gen II 2014 |
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dstpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1286
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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As a final follow-up to this thread, I went back to using Ultra Pure. I ended up cleaning my new Bach 37* a total of 6-7 times over the course of a week, and still got the same results every time, where the valves would end up hanging. I didn't clean my Adams F2 flugel as much, but got the same results.
In my email correspondence with Pro Elite Oil Team, I learned that they had pros in various pockets of the U.S. try the oil and without issue. I bought the Bach 37* at ITG 2022, so I'm not sure what the problem was. I even resorted to only using the oil on all slides and valves, so that there would be no cross contamination from my preferred slide grease. The slides worked well with it, but the valves would inevitably start "catching" within an hour or two of playing, and this was true for my Adams flugel, too.
I am now only using Ultra Pure Oil (standard) for all slides/valves/threads, and all is right with the world. My mom would have told me, "You're not holding your mouth right," so it's no judgment against Pro Elite Oil. I probably was doing something wrong along the way. It will probably work just fine for the rest of you players. |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1831 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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Back in the 60's there was a valve oil with silicone additives - I think it was called Octave or Octave -8 . Schilke players were using it for a while. They found out that with very close tolerance valves, the silicone would build up making the valves sluggish. Soon everyone cleaning out their horns and using Al Cass.
I have a couple of problem horns that have responded well to La Tromba T1 and to Denis Wick oils. I might give the graphene stuff a try on them. When using regular oils on trumpets with no issues, I would oil freely every day. With oils with additives on a problem horn I might only oil every week. I'll get some on order to check it out.
I really don't see the reason to use an oil with additives on new high tolerance trumpet valves.
Remember at one time in brass history, water was the recommended lubricant. |
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