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Rogerrr Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2020 Posts: 144 Location: USA
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:11 am Post subject: is this really a Conn 28A??? |
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Saw a listing on Reverb for a Conn 28A
...but it doesn't look like what I expect a 28A to look like
Did they change the design at some point, or did the seller make a mistake?
https://reverb.com/item/45054020-conn-constellation-long-cornet _________________ Sax player learning cornet & trumpet...and occasionally a little bit of trombone.
( so don't confuse me with an experienced player ) |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:36 am Post subject: |
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Probably a '60 37A (short model Connstellation).
An early one but already with 1st slide trigger and 3d slide stop screw. |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1830 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:13 am Post subject: |
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No - it is not a 28A. It is the 37A or 38/A
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn37A-38A1966image.html
If you want a cornet that has similar resistance to a Conn 38B trumpet, then you want the 28A cornet. (.438 bore) If you want a cornet that feels more like the early Directors or the Conn 80A, then you want the Conn 38A. (.485 bore.)
I would like to have a 38A, but not at that price. |
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Subtropical and Subpar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 627 Location: Here and there
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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Andy Cooper wrote: | No - it is not a 28A. It is the 37A or 38/A
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn37A-38A1966image.html
If you want a cornet that has similar resistance to a Conn 38B trumpet, then you want the 28A cornet. (.438 bore) If you want a cornet that feels more like the early Directors or the Conn 80A, then you want the Conn 38A. (.485 bore.)
I would like to have a 38A, but not at that price. |
The 38A is a great horn. I got mine for roughly half that a few years back, and in excellent condition, but it seems most that pass my gaze on the usual stores and auction sites are looking in the $750 to $900 range lately. _________________ 1932 King Silvertone cornet
1936 King Liberty No. 2 trumpet
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB trumpet
1965 Conn 38A
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
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JonathanM Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2018 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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I've had one of the Connstellation 38A's, and played another one for a few days - they're such powerful horns.
Here's a 38A that appears to be in much better condition and at a much nice price. I believe I've purchased 3 vintage Olds horns from this seller at Facebook's Marketplace and it's been a very good experience.
https://www.facebook.com/commerce/listing/783168992838314/?media_id=0&ref=share_attachment _________________ Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super |
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huntman10 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2017 Posts: 692 Location: Texas South Plains
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, 38A, 0.4844" extra large bore, but don't be put off by the bore size. I have owned several over the years and played lots of concerts.
The 37A has a yelow brass bell and no trigger but is otherwise the same.
The 38A was the workhorse, or maybe I should say WARHORSE of the big college and high school powerhouse bands in the late 60's and early 80's. Terrific section horns and built like tanks. But the lacquer on the " Electro D" finish always looks sad these days. The earliest 38A models were Coprion under the nickel, but later ones were brass jnderneath. _________________ huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc. |
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Subtropical and Subpar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 627 Location: Here and there
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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huntman10 wrote: | Yes, 38A, 0.4844" extra large bore, but don't be put off by the bore size. I have owned several over the years and played lots of concerts.
The 37A has a yelow brass bell and no trigger but is otherwise the same.
The 38A was the workhorse, or maybe I should say WARHORSE of the big college and high school powerhouse bands in the late 60's and early 80's. Terrific section horns and built like tanks. But the lacquer on the " Electro D" finish always looks sad these days. The earliest 38A models were Coprion under the nickel, but later ones were brass jnderneath. |
Perhaps I acquired a well-preserved model but the lacquer on my 38A is almost 100%. There are some tiny bits on the valve block but that's about it. The case smells to all hell, though It sits in the corner until some enterprising trumpeter finally cracks the code on de-funking old cases. _________________ 1932 King Silvertone cornet
1936 King Liberty No. 2 trumpet
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB trumpet
1965 Conn 38A
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
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Rogerrr Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2020 Posts: 144 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the tip!
I was actually just curious…but when I thought about it I realized this is just the kind of horn I’m looking for. I’m just a beginner @ brass and thought I would wait a while before getting a better instrument but this seems like just the thing for me.
Kinda ironic when I noticed that I had been watching your videos when I was googling Conn cornets
It’s been already shipped and I should get it next week _________________ Sax player learning cornet & trumpet...and occasionally a little bit of trombone.
( so don't confuse me with an experienced player ) |
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JonathanM Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2018 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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Rogerrr wrote: |
Thanks for the tip!
I was actually just curious…but when I thought about it I realized this is just the kind of horn I’m looking for. I’m just a beginner @ brass and thought I would wait a while before getting a better instrument but this seems like just the thing for me.
Kinda ironic when I noticed that I had been watching your videos when I was googling Conn cornets
It’s been already shipped and I should get it next week |
Roger, I just wish you were watching someone good for info and ideas. Brass is a delightful hobby. I've read a lot here at TH, watched many Trent Austin and the Horntrader vid's, and just felt like I'd try to share as much as possible.
Glad you've got a good horn on the way! Let us know your thoughts after you've got it. Connstellations are SUCH impressive horns. I've had 2 28A's recently, and they're very nice horns - but really lean toward the trumpet side of things, I think. They do have versatility though. The 38A though, wow, what tone they can put out. Cornets like that are so pretty with the Curry VC mouthpiece, which has to be one of my favored all time mouthpieces.
Good luck and enjoy - and you couldn't have bought from a nicer seller; his knowledge of horns is impressive. _________________ Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super |
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Rogerrr Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2020 Posts: 144 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Just from the information he was providing it seems like he takes good care of his horns. I'm originally a sax player and never imagined I'd ever try to play cornet or trombone....but it's so fun....sounds great and it makes me develop my ear which has always been a weakness of mine
The mouthpieces I have are a generic "cornet" mouthpiece with no markings that was on my Besson 2-20 when I got it, a Bach 3C and a Wick 4B...enough to get me started _________________ Sax player learning cornet & trumpet...and occasionally a little bit of trombone.
( so don't confuse me with an experienced player ) |
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huntman10 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2017 Posts: 692 Location: Texas South Plains
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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Response to Subtropical and Subpar:
Yes, I, too have a very nice Connie 38A, and mine has a * after the serial number, apparently indicating a custom order, most likely with the Coprion bell, but we won't tell the others!
The best thing I have found for funky case disorder is to spray the inside thoroughly with Febreze, including below the horn bed, and put the open case in my old Bronco parked in the summer Texas sun for a few months. Lacking a derelict or seasonal vehicle maybe in the back of your car or a shed that gets hot, but I realize a lot of folks may not have such accommodations. Maybe a hair dryer on high temperature might work. _________________ huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc. |
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Subtropical and Subpar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 627 Location: Here and there
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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huntman10 wrote: | Response to Subtropical and Subpar:
Yes, I, too have a very nice Connie 38A, and mine has a * after the serial number, apparently indicating a custom order, most likely with the Coprion bell, but we won't tell the others!
The best thing I have found for funky case disorder is to spray the inside thoroughly with Febreze, including below the horn bed, and put the open case in my old Bronco parked in the summer Texas sun for a few months. Lacking a derelict or seasonal vehicle maybe in the back of your car or a shed that gets hot, but I realize a lot of folks may not have such accommodations. Maybe a hair dryer on high temperature might work. |
No * after my serial number, so I guess I don't have the full coprion bell; just the electro-D plating. Just another reason to look out for a 9A or 10A, I suppose!
I have done the Febreze and extended periods in the sun - I do live in the tropics (or subtropics; the line seems to move depending on which source I check) - and the case still smells like a thousand people died in it I keep my 38A in a double case with my Bach 180LR72. _________________ 1932 King Silvertone cornet
1936 King Liberty No. 2 trumpet
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB trumpet
1965 Conn 38A
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
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huntman10 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2017 Posts: 692 Location: Texas South Plains
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:50 am Post subject: |
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Re: Coprion Bells on Connstellation Cornets from C Derksen's Conn Loyalist site:
Quote: | Connstellation short model (through serial number 9xx,xxx; beware that there was a 37A Connstellation short model with brass bell) |
If your Connie's serial number doesn't have a letter prefix, it is likely a Coprion bell, unless of course it has the yellow brass unplated 37A bell. After that period, it would be a special order to have a coprion bell. Interestingly, a V scratched following the serial number indicates a factory second. I once acquired a Connstellation 28 A long cornet with the V scratch and Coprion bell and leadpipe which were not nickel plated, and yes, it was clearly factory stamped "Connstellation". _________________ huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc. |
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Rogerrr Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2020 Posts: 144 Location: USA
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Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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JonathanM wrote: | Rogerrr wrote: |
Thanks for the tip!
I was actually just curious…but when I thought about it I realized this is just the kind of horn I’m looking for. I’m just a beginner @ brass and thought I would wait a while before getting a better instrument but this seems like just the thing for me.
Kinda ironic when I noticed that I had been watching your videos when I was googling Conn cornets
It’s been already shipped and I should get it next week |
Roger, I just wish you were watching someone good for info and ideas. Brass is a delightful hobby. I've read a lot here at TH, watched many Trent Austin and the Horntrader vid's, and just felt like I'd try to share as much as possible.
Glad you've got a good horn on the way! Let us know your thoughts after you've got it. Connstellations are SUCH impressive horns. I've had 2 28A's recently, and they're very nice horns - but really lean toward the trumpet side of things, I think. They do have versatility though. The 38A though, wow, what tone they can put out. Cornets like that are so pretty with the Curry VC mouthpiece, which has to be one of my favored all time mouthpieces.
Good luck and enjoy - and you couldn't have bought from a nicer seller; his knowledge of horns is impressive. |
The horn arrived today....1961 Connstellation 38A....plays great with Bach 3C and Wick 4B....I think I have the right range of bright&dark with those two mouthpieces for now
Much easier to play than my Besson 2-20
After I have fun with it for a couple days and show it to my teacher I'll run it by the repair shop to see what they think. _________________ Sax player learning cornet & trumpet...and occasionally a little bit of trombone.
( so don't confuse me with an experienced player ) |
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Subtropical and Subpar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 627 Location: Here and there
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Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Rogerrr wrote: | JonathanM wrote: | Rogerrr wrote: |
Thanks for the tip!
I was actually just curious…but when I thought about it I realized this is just the kind of horn I’m looking for. I’m just a beginner @ brass and thought I would wait a while before getting a better instrument but this seems like just the thing for me.
Kinda ironic when I noticed that I had been watching your videos when I was googling Conn cornets
It’s been already shipped and I should get it next week |
Roger, I just wish you were watching someone good for info and ideas. Brass is a delightful hobby. I've read a lot here at TH, watched many Trent Austin and the Horntrader vid's, and just felt like I'd try to share as much as possible.
Glad you've got a good horn on the way! Let us know your thoughts after you've got it. Connstellations are SUCH impressive horns. I've had 2 28A's recently, and they're very nice horns - but really lean toward the trumpet side of things, I think. They do have versatility though. The 38A though, wow, what tone they can put out. Cornets like that are so pretty with the Curry VC mouthpiece, which has to be one of my favored all time mouthpieces.
Good luck and enjoy - and you couldn't have bought from a nicer seller; his knowledge of horns is impressive. |
The horn arrived today....1961 Connstellation 38A....plays great with Bach 3C and Wick 4B....I think I have the right range of bright&dark with those two mouthpieces for now
Much easier to play than my Besson 2-20
After I have fun with it for a couple days and show it to my teacher I'll run it by the repair shop to see what they think. |
Just in case it is of any interest or value, I switch between four mouthpieces on my 38A and get remarkably different sound qualities from them. From shallowest to deepest, a Schilke 14a4X (cornet-shanked) picc trumpet mouthpiece, good for trad jazz), Bach 1C (a bit darker than the trumpet equivalent), a Monette B11 (like a 1B but with that extra Monette creamy thickness of tone), and a Yamaha 16F (very deep, very dark). I used a Yamaha David King for a bit, which is deeper still, but between it being at least as deep as a medium deep flugel mouthpiece and the 38A being a .485 bore horn, it was just a bit much of a workout to not be flat all the time. The 16F is much more manageable and nearly as dark in tone. _________________ 1932 King Silvertone cornet
1936 King Liberty No. 2 trumpet
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB trumpet
1965 Conn 38A
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:11 am Post subject: |
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A Yamaha 16F does not exist. There is a Yamaha 16F4 but that is a mouthpiece for flügelhorn. We are talking cornet so I suppose you mean the Yamaha 16E.
(these cornet mp”s don’t have the semi-flat 4 rim but the more rounded 3 rim). |
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Subtropical and Subpar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 627 Location: Here and there
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:03 am Post subject: |
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delano wrote: | A Yamaha 16F does not exist. There is a Yamaha 16F4 but that is a mouthpiece for flügelhorn. We are talking cornet so I suppose you mean the Yamaha 16E.
(these cornet mp”s don’t have the semi-flat 4 rim but the more rounded 3 rim). |
You are quite right; it is a 16E. It was a long Thanksgiving week _________________ 1932 King Silvertone cornet
1936 King Liberty No. 2 trumpet
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB trumpet
1965 Conn 38A
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
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