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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 870 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 4:13 pm Post subject: 60s corperation 37 vs modern 37? |
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I have never been fond of the modern 37 horns. Every one I played felt stuffy and pretty boring. However I love the 72 bell Bach, but I was injured in military and I require a 1st trigger. I came across a 1967 corperation 37 with a trigger and wondering if it might play better than a modern one. I'm also wondering how sacrilegious it would be to swap out the bell to a 72 bell if I didn't like it. Putting a modern 72 bell on a vintage corperation horn just to get it how I like it. The horn had the valves reworked and the leadpipe replaced by Charlie melk, so it's not 100% original, though the leadpipe is a bach leadpipe and mouthpiece reciever is original. . _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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bagmangood Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2009 Posts: 1359 Location: SF Bay Area
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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FWIW I've also always hated "new" 37 horns as well (including horns from other makers with a 37 style bell), but I've enjoyed a few older 37 horns (corporation/MV/NY). I even liked one enough that I bought it
I wouldn't swap out the bell as you can probably buy a 72 and get a trigger put on it for cheaper than swapping out the bell. _________________ More than one trumpet
A "few" mouthpieces |
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JonathanM Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2022 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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The 72 bell is really quite popular - and a bit rare in the used market, so I don't think you'd lose anything in the transition.
One of my future projects is to have a removable (like the tunable Schilke bell option) set up for a Bach Strad. I've got a 72* bell (my favorite), a 65G bell, and I'd like to do it with a lacquer 180 or 19043. Although I think the 37 bell is nice with it's 'do it all' ability, it's just not my favorite bell. However, it would only cost a bit more for a setup where you could alternate bells - and the option to have a 37 or 72 might be a very nice option indeed. And I suspect if you weren't crazy about a Strad with optional bells, it would be quite easy to sell.
Another nice thing about Bach horns is the plethora of options one has to add and alter tone. MK puts out a pretty broad option for tuning slides; you can do square, D shaped, or full radial slides, with or without brace, copper, bronze, nickel, sterling silver or brass - and to my ear there really is a difference in metal and the resulting sound.
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Lastly, I've had 3 or 4 older Strads lately, and two 190 models. Perhaps I'm lucky, but the 190S43 and LT1901B I have are really good playing, good sounding horns; I like them considerably better than the older Strad's I've recently had - with one exception. I bought a well-beaten, quite thoroughly played 180S43* here at TH about 18 months ago. Red rot, creased bell... and a marvelous player. It did have the Corporation bell, and when I got some dents removed and the creased bell brought round again - it had a really nice, singing tone. Anyway, not all the new Strad's are bad, and not all the old Strads are great; but there's some good ones of each age out there, I think. _________________ Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording, '52 Mendez
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 870 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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JonathanM wrote: | The 72 bell is really quite popular - and a bit rare in the used market, so I don't think you'd lose anything in the transition.
One of my future projects is to have a removable (like the tunable Schilke bell option) set up for a Bach Strad. I've got a 72* bell (my favorite), a 65G bell, and I'd like to do it with a lacquer 180 or 19043. Although I think the 37 bell is nice with it's 'do it all' ability, it's just not my favorite bell. However, it would only cost a bit more for a setup where you could alternate bells - and the option to have a 37 or 72 might be a very nice option indeed. And I suspect if you weren't crazy about a Strad with optional bells, it would be quite easy to sell.
Another nice thing about Bach horns is the plethora of options one has to add and alter tone. MK puts out a pretty broad option for tuning slides; you can do square, D shaped, or full radial slides, with or without brace, copper, bronze, nickel, sterling silver or brass - and to my ear there really is a difference in metal and the resulting sound.
=
Lastly, I've had 3 or 4 older Strads lately, and two 190 models. Perhaps I'm lucky, but the 190S43 and LT1901B I have are really good playing, good sounding horns; I like them considerably better than the older Strad's I've recently had - with one exception. I bought a well-beaten, quite thoroughly played 180S43* here at TH about 18 months ago. Red rot, creased bell... and a marvelous player. It did have the Corporation bell, and when I got some dents removed and the creased bell brought round again - it had a really nice, singing tone. Anyway, not all the new Strad's are bad, and not all the old Strads are great; but there's some good ones of each age out there, I think. |
I've been trying to get Bach to build me a 190s72 with a 1st slide trigger. First effort ended in failure then the high brass product manager reached out to me on Facebook and is trying to see if he can push it through and get one made.we will see. I really have no interest in an adjustable bell version. _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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JonathanM Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2022 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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I see them with first triggers occasionally, but it's a pretty rare option. Glad to hear you've got someone at Bach going to bat for you. Good luck! _________________ Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording, '52 Mendez
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 870 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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bagmangood wrote: | FWIW I've also always hated "new" 37 horns as well (including horns from other makers with a 37 style bell), but I've enjoyed a few older 37 horns (corporation/MV/NY). I even liked one enough that I bought it
I wouldn't swap out the bell as you can probably buy a 72 and get a trigger put on it for cheaper than swapping out the bell. | issue with putting a trigger on a existing bach 72 is cost of either replacing the 1st slide or replacing it if the horn is a silver horn. I had a lr180s72 and it was around 700.00 or so to get a trigger put on and get all the work done and either the plating done or the slide replaced. A new bell is around 500. I thought it be cheaper to sell the horn and buy a new one with a trigger than invest another 700 to 800 into a current bach 72 I had. I sold the horn and bought a King lol and started my quest to search for the Bach with a trigger. _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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jengstrom Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Sep 2008 Posts: 433 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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The thing about changing the bell, or any other major part, is that you don’t know how it’s going to play after the mod. In my opinion, it would be best to find a horn you really like and then modify the slide, hoping that the relatively minor modification to the plumbing doesn’t screw up the playability. It’s not just about dollars and cents.
I agree with what several posters here have said about 37’s. I’ve only ever played 2 That I liked. One was a horn that a teacher picked up at the factory when I was in college. He selected this horn out of a batch of 10 or 20, and then had them remove at least 2 braces before he brought it home. The other was a 70’s horn that a friend picked up on eBay, on which he installed a #7 leadpipe that he made himself in musical instrument repair school. I tried to buy that one, but he wouldn’t sell. Damn trombone players, anyway…
John _________________ Bach 43*
Bach 72*
Bach Chicago C
Yamaha YTR-761 D/Eb
Kanstul 1525
Bach 196 picc |
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Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 2017 Location: WI
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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chef8489 wrote: | I had a lr180s72 and it was around 700.00 or so to get a trigger put on and get all the work done and either the plating done or the slide replaced. |
I've had a lot of full restorations, and some modifications, done on my collection of over 50 horns, and $700.00 for a trigger installation seems way out of line. _________________ "He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 870 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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Halflip wrote: | chef8489 wrote: | I had a lr180s72 and it was around 700.00 or so to get a trigger put on and get all the work done and either the plating done or the slide replaced. |
I've had a lot of full restorations, and some modifications, done on my collection of over 50 horns, and $700.00 for a trigger installation seems way out of line. |
It's not just for a trigger. If you remove the saddle on a silver plate slide and then install a trigger on that slide it removes a lot of the silver plating. You either have to have it replaced or replace the slide. So cost of a bach trigger and all the parts plus the slide or the plating plus the labor. Plus I was going to get a 43 leadpipe as well. _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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