View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
|
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 4:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
In a horn, what works for one player may not meet the demands of another player. In my case the answer would be my Olds Recording.
George _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jengstrom Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Sep 2008 Posts: 427 Location: Rochester, NY
|
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 5:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
I had a Kanstul 1600 that was interesting with respect to agility. If you were the least bit tense, it played like a brick. But if you relaxed enough, it was extremely agile. It was like driving a sports car. In that respect, it was a great teaching tool.
I loved that horn. It was a blast to play. However, it was only for jazz or big band. It just didn’t cut it in an orchestra setting. When I got my 72*, I found it would do everything the 1600 could do (with a little less agility), but with a better orchestral sound. And it still lights up in a big band setting.
The 1600 was more fun to play if I relaxed enough, but the 72* is no slouch in that regard.
Footnote unrelated to the original post: I’ve read many times that you will know the right horn when you first play it. Forever, I didn’t think I was good enough a player to make subtle distinctions between quality horns. When I got serious about replacing my old 43*, I was surprised (and happy) to find that I did indeed notice these things. The old saying is true: the right horn will find you. The 1600 was a LOT of fun to play, and sometimes I miss it. But I knew the first time I played the 72* that it was a keeper.
John _________________ Bach 43*
Bach 72*
Bach Chicago C
Yamaha YTR-761 D/Eb
Kanstul 1525
Bach 196 picc |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1473 Location: OHare area
|
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 5:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
If you can ever get your hands on a great Chicago Benge, you will know exactly what a responsive and agile horn is.
The sound they can generate has a ring to it that basically few other horns have. They also fit in any genre you can think of.
I have two friends that have restored, gold plated Chicagos. One is from 1939, the other from around 1947.
They are just magnificent horns made by a man who was a great player and completely understood what a horn should do. And he was not an engineer, either.
R. Tomasek |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mr oakmount Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Jun 2022 Posts: 150 Location: Europe
|
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
kehaulani asked
"Then why don't we all play a Schilke B6?
Seems like a bit of a smart aleck question, but I mean it. What do other horns have that the Schilke doesn't have?"
Well, I for one am not often looking for "nimble" in a trumpet.
I prefer stable, clear (not over-bright) and enough resistance so I can "lean in" when the going gets tough. That's why I usually end up on the Bachish side of the Bach-Schilke-divide
The closest to "nimble" I have is an amazing Adams A5. It blows free and wide open (almost to a fault) and responds to everything you want to do with it. If you find the valves to your liking is another question: They somehow feel "big", but I am not bothered by this. Try before you buy. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
chrisf3000 Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2004 Posts: 347 Location: Winnipeg, Canada
|
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
The Yamaha LA 8335II is one of the most nimble, responsive horns I have ever played. As soon as I saw your question, I thought of this horn. The first gen was not even close, but this one is fantastic. Plus it's not just bright, there's a fullness to the sound.
My other choices would be a Shires. Not sure which would model would suit you, as all players are different, but whatever magic they put into those horns is impressive. Definitely worth considering. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9028 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
Vin DiBona wrote: | And he was not an engineer, either. |
_________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
|
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Most Nimble Horn |
|
|
tyler.slamkowski wrote: | What, in your opinion, is the most nimble (or agile) horn you have ever played? Nimble defined by the following:
-Fastest, most consistent valves
-Flexible
-Crisp articulation
Secondarily, is it good for all genres, or is more oriented to a particular style (mariachi, classical, jazz, symphonic, etc.)? |
Go back and read this again and think of it this way. Rock solid slotting means hitting notes securely in fast runs, even jumping octaves. Then the OP wants a horn that can play all styles. So a versatile horn with very good slotting. Now what comes to mind? _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jcubed901 Regular Member
Joined: 07 Sep 2022 Posts: 26
|
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
Two horns immediately come to mind:
- the Shires Destino III (the Doc Severinsen model)
- a J. Landress custom built trumpet (it was displayed on a wall at his old shop)
Both of these horns felt similarly, and exceptionally, nimble. They were very responsive, agile, and focused throughout the entire range of the horn
In some ways, they both felt like sports cars |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tyler.slamkowski Veteran Member
Joined: 03 Jun 2017 Posts: 104 Location: Muskegon, MI
|
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: Most Nimble Horn |
|
|
Richard III wrote: | tyler.slamkowski wrote: | What, in your opinion, is the most nimble (or agile) horn you have ever played? Nimble defined by the following:
-Fastest, most consistent valves
-Flexible
-Crisp articulation
Secondarily, is it good for all genres, or is more oriented to a particular style (mariachi, classical, jazz, symphonic, etc.)? |
Go back and read this again and think of it this way. Rock solid slotting means hitting notes securely in fast runs, even jumping octaves. Then the OP wants a horn that can play all styles. So a versatile horn with very good slotting. Now what comes to mind? |
Thanks! That's close to what I'm asking. An all-around horn that really shines in it's flexibility, valves, and articulation. I play a Shires Model A (B-flat) and Model 4F (C), love the sound I get, but the valves actually don't feel better than my old Yamaha. Slotting is great. But recently, I wonder if there's something out there that fits me a little better (recitals, small group jazz, subbing in the symphony & big bands, eventual DMA with a focus on these things and teaching). |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8335 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
|
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
mr oakmount wrote: |
Well, I for one am not often looking for "nimble" in a trumpet.
I prefer stable, clear (not over-bright) and enough resistance so I can "lean in" when the going gets tough. That's why I usually end up on the Bachish side of the Bach-Schilke-divide |
In my opinion, the divide is more between Bach trumpets and trumpets that hew more closely to the original French Besson style and playability. The latter includes Schilke (who put his own spin on the Besson thing), Benge (who more closely stuck to the Besson thing), as well as actual French Bessons - either made in France or the later Kanstul build ones. There might be others as well - I'm not sure where Calicchio fits in this (maybe by Benge?), nor am I sure about makers like Olds or Martin, for example - but I think grouping Besson, Benge, and Schilke together as having similar leanings in terms of response and sound is more accurate. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mr oakmount Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Jun 2022 Posts: 150 Location: Europe
|
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
In Austrian German there's the idea of the "eierlegende Wollmilchsau":
A pig that gives meat, milk, wool and will also lay eggs
I was looking for this kind of trumpet: Rock solid and infinitely flexible, easiest response and fantastic projection, a dark rich tone that will easily cut through a loud band, ... see what I mean? What happened is that I kept trying for ways to make my heavy Bach-types more responsive and open while making my Benge-types more solid.
Guess what: At some point I decided to embrace my instruments the way they were and to find ways to use their respective strengths.
PS: My "nimble" votes go to the Adams A5 (if you like the valves) and my Yamaha 731 Flugelhorn. And I wouldn't play Tchaikovsky IV or Star Wars on either |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2053 Location: Germany
|
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ha, having lived in Germany for almost 20 years now it’s been a while since the magic pig came up Seems like your decision to use the horns for their strengths is exactly what I decided to do. The rotary goes into orchestra and rotary things, generally the more disciplined direction while the Bach goes into the commercial and louder direction. Works just fine. I guess I could do everything with the Bach and a set of mouthpieces but the rotary is so much fun as well!
And I actually did play James Bond and Stevie Wonder stuff on the rotary _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
|
Back to top |
|
|
AndyDavids Veteran Member
Joined: 08 Jun 2020 Posts: 176
|
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:19 am Post subject: Re: Most Nimble Horn |
|
|
Richard III wrote: | Then the OP wants a horn that can play all styles. So a versatile horn with very good slotting. Now what comes to mind? | My Schilke B1 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
LadFree Regular Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2022 Posts: 57 Location: NY
|
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
The most nimble horn is the one Allen Vizutti is playing!
Actually, if you want nimble,I would say get out the Clark book
and a metronome and go to work. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9028 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
mr oakmount wrote: | In Austrian German there's the idea of the "eierlegende Wollmilchsau":
A pig that gives meat, milk, wool and will also lay eggs |
. . . wie gesagt. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 1925 Location: WI
|
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
mr oakmount wrote: | In Austrian German there's the idea of the "eierlegende Wollmilchsau":
A pig that gives meat, milk, wool and will also lay eggs |
"Eierlegende Wollmilchsau" -- what a brand that would make! And judging from the quick search that I just did, there are a number of potential images to choose from for use as an engraving on the bell. _________________ "He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Lawler Bb Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Jan 2002 Posts: 1140 Location: Milwaukee, WI
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
JetJaguar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 1518 Location: Vancouver, BC
|
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Interesting that there are so many different answers. I think we all want a horn we can get from note to note on with ease, so perhaps nimbleness is a fundamental of what we all look for in a horn. _________________ 1938 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore, 38 bell
Bach 7C mouthpiece
I'm looking for a Connstellation 5C-N or 5B-N mouthpiece
www.jazzscales.org
The Coady Strengthening Exercises: http://coady.coolwarm.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DickieG64 Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 114 Location: Weehawken, New Jersey
|
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 3:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have a '47 large bore Chicago Benge that is very easy to play, open in the top range, and just basically can do anything I want it to.
Great horn _________________ Chicago Benge Large bore 1947
Monette B993
Taylor Flugelhorn
Kanstul -Charlie Davis pic prototype never produced
Conn 80A Cornet
Taylor Flugle Horn
Kanstul-Charlie Davis Prototype Piccolo-never produced
1946 Conn 80A cornet |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
|
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 7:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
JetJaguar wrote: | Interesting that there are so many different answers. I think we all want a horn we can get from note to note on with ease, so perhaps nimbleness is a fundamental of what we all look for in a horn. |
Define nimble?
Quote: quick and light in movement or action; agile.
I have a combination that I tried recently. I combined my Conn 22B with a Curry 7M mouthpiece. Very nimble. But also very difficult to control. Lip trills are a normal part of the trad jazz I play, but this combination made it too easy. Each note slid into the next and I was sliding all over the place. Slippery slots indeed.
So nimble is good. But you also need accuracy. I went back to another combination after that. _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|