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iiipopes Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2015 Posts: 555
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:02 am Post subject: What do You Look For in a Used Instrument? |
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OK. Those of us who have played for a few decades remember the chestnut, especially if on a budget: "A good used instrument of a reputable brand is a better value than a new unproven instrument." OK. What does that mean? I have played and at times over the decades purchased many new and used instruments of all types, including both brass and others.
What do I look for? In addition to the usual indicators, such as pulling a slide to see if the valves still "pop," dents that may or may not be reparable, trying it out for the intonation and blow characteristics, I actually look for the appropriate amount of wear consistent with the age of the instrument in the places that would indicate the instrument was actually played, and not set aside for one reason or another.
For example, I recently purchased a Boosey & Hawkes Sovereign 921 cornet from @ 1977. The lacquer was in great shape, the valves popped, etc. But how do I know it was worth the money and would not have issues over time? On the first valve trigger, there was the proper amount of wear to the nickel plating to let me know the cornet was actually played, and played well, and well taken care of, letting me know that it wasn't tried and set aside, leading to the inference it would be a good purchase. It was, and a I got what I considered to be a good deal.
It's kind of like the low-mileage car: the service records don't always tell the entire story, becuase if it has too few miles, even if regularly serviced, all the seals may be deteriorated or condensation accumulated internally from non-use that may cause internal rust from neglect, or something else that may indicate the car wasn't worth driving. This is in contrast to a moderate-mileage car for its age that in addition to a complete service history may indicate it is worth the money.
Yes, I am enjoying my Sov. What does everyone else look for when contemplating the purchase of a used instrument? _________________ King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet |
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jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10204 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:39 am Post subject: |
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Brand.
Model.
Vintage.
Valves.
Dents.
Finish.
Slides.
Value. _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2041 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:12 am Post subject: |
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The first thing I check is the sound. It has to offer me the sound I want out of the case.
Second is valves. Valve action needs to be fast, smooth and reliable. A valve overhaul is quite expensive, so I'm only interested in a horn with proper valve action or one I am reasonably sure will have proper valve action after a good cleaning, new valve guides and springs.
Third is proper slide action. The third valve slide and main tuning slide get the most attention, but issues with any of the slides can impact intonation or reveal trauma that could be expensive to address and negatively impact the proper performance of the horn.
Fourth is red rot. Replacing a leadpipe can also be expensive, and red rot is not limited to there. Check the slide crooks as well. [Well, check the entire horn, but leadpipe and slide crooks are where you're most likely to find red rot.]
Fifth is the bell. It is the "heart" of the trumpet, but I don't worry about it much as long as the sound is good.
Sixth is cracks in the tubing, loose bracing, dents that might be difficult to repair, etc. |
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 1021 Location: East Asia
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:26 am Post subject: |
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For me it's a combination of tone, checking out obvious flaws, and making sure everything moves.
Someone here taught me the line, "don't buy someone else's mistake." I have actually now done this two or three times:
-A trumpet that had red rot
-A trumpet with a badly stuck cap
-Some student or vintage instruments that are very common but will probably be a hassle to resell
-A trumpet that required a lot of repairs
One the other hand, I've gotten some great instruments along the way and even new instruments can have issues (one display model I bought developed lacquer issues very soon). |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9028 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:55 am Post subject: |
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A play on a popular (at least here) insurance commercial: The Three Ss. Sound, Sound and Sound. If the sound's not right that ends it right there.
Then, mechanics: freely moving valves and slides?
Next, playability: can I get around the horn easily?
Cosmetics: dents, pings and creases. How much finish is left? Any red rot?
And how much extra repair, tweaking, refinishing am I willing to do and at what cost? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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mike ansberry Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 1607 Location: Clarksville, Tn
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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Every thing above plus, if it does not blow well, check the valve alignment. Used instruments frequently have worn valve felts, both upper and lower. If the valves are even a little out of alignment it will effect the blow and centering of the horn. _________________ Music is a fire in your belly, fighting to get out. You'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt. |
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sd4f Veteran Member
Joined: 30 Dec 2009 Posts: 102 Location: Australia
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:14 am Post subject: Re: What do You Look For in a Used Instrument? |
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iiipopes wrote: | "A good used instrument of a reputable brand is a better value than a new unproven instrument." OK. What does that mean? |
In my opinion, buy a looked after second hand instrument, and it's a lot cheaper than if it were new, whereas if you buy right, they're functionally all there, maybe a few dings, which in time show up on any instrument that gets used. I just think they present much better value for money as the hit in market value is not commensurate with the degradation of the instrument.
With that said, some decent brands are also unavailable new, as factories come and go, so I like to look out for Courtois instruments, because I haven't had one that I didn't feel that plays poorly. Bought a few sight unseen, and I've always been impressed with the build quality, and the way they play.
So yea, I look at instruments that on the second hand market go between $1,000-$2,000, whereas new price is usually multiples of that. |
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