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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:33 am Post subject: |
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Depends on what you mean by high notes. High enough to play the Hayden? Sure, I'd hazard most want to be able to do that. High enough to reliably nail the run up to D for In the Mood? Yup, that too. High enough to play lead on West Side Story? Maybe not everyone aspires to that, but many do.
But there's no getting around that a good deal of early music and contemporary music requires trumpets to play higher than a typical player can manage. So range is almost always an issue for trumpets. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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peanuts56 Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Nov 2021 Posts: 231
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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I'm inactive on trumpet these days. Too lazy to practice and not a lot of work available. Now that we're both retired, my wife and I travel quite a bit. When I was still playing, I had a respectable G over high C. On an extra good day, it was a bit higher. A combination of some things I picked up from lessons with Jerry Callett and Jeff Smiley's book got me to that point.
Once I got to that point I had very little desire to play any higher. |
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trumpetfarts Regular Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2022 Posts: 19
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Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2023 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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I think Lynn Nicholson said it best in some interview a while back. Playing high notes is a spiritual thing.
I agree.
And, not all of us are spiritual players. _________________ ----------------------------------------------------
Beans, beans the musical fruit.... Hey, it's easier than playing the damn trumpet. |
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Bill_Bumps Veteran Member
Joined: 07 May 2019 Posts: 157
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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Trumpjerele wrote: | kehaulani wrote: |
For me, having the ability to move easily from low F# to high C is enough.
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So far, that describes my own range, for most of the numbers I practice. But occasionally, I do like to go higher, not just to prove that I can, but because it makes a given number sound...right...to me.
I guess what I'm trying to convey is that hitting the high notes shouldn't be an end in itself. It's a tool to be used when the music suggests it. |
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GizB Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 200
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:44 am Post subject: |
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I'm like Samuel L Jackson in "Jackie Brown:" "I get high at night when I get through all my business." Some guys can indulge and play fine. I'm not one of those guys - not even a beer while I'm practicing, rehearsing, or performing.
On a more serious note, Wayne Bergeron (double-high Cs at 12!) essentially said there is a knack for high notes, which he believes everyone can access, but must find it for themselves. He noted that many players hit a wall, whether it's high C, F, or double G. Something must change to break that barrier, and practicing alone won't do it.
https://youtu.be/f-Q2CkBkTts
I don't often watch these videos - TLDW, but this one I found worthwhile, not only for the trumpet info, but for an appreciation of Wayne Bergeron's humanity. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9031 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:20 am Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | For me, having the ability to move easily from low F# to high C is enough. |
Not to be misunderstood, I have a reliable E over high C and a playable Double High C. But creatively, the high range is there to support what I do below that range. If High C was my top playable note, my High C when playing would be iffy. Creatively, I don't need those high notes. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Shaft Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Sep 2006 Posts: 985
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:37 am Post subject: |
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🙄
Last edited by Shaft on Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9031 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:20 am Post subject: |
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I probably should have said, "I used to have ... " I've said it before but, maybe, needs saying again. I tend to speak in the present just to keep it simple. Fact is, I am a multiple-stroke survivor and, as the saying goes, "A mere shell of his former self". But I was a full-time working professional for half a century.
Nevertheless, speaking as if I still play like I used to, doesn't change the answer's relevance to the question. Just answering the question. I don't have anything to prove to anyone. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Shaft Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Sep 2006 Posts: 985
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:42 am Post subject: |
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🤔
Last edited by Shaft on Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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RussellDDixon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2014 Posts: 832 Location: Mason, OH
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ... high notes are just that NOTES on the Range of the trumpet. So yeah ... I like em and taught myself how to play them.
RussellDeanDixon.com _________________ Schilke X3 Bb trumpet
Yamaha 631g Flugelhorn
Nicholson Monette Prana Resonance LT mouthpiece
Kanstul Claude Gordon Personal mouthpiece |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:41 am Post subject: |
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Kehaulani is one of my all time trumpet player heroes. After all those strokes, he continues to work on and improve his trumpet playing. No one should ever question his credentials either. As he says, he has nothing to prove.
George _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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trumpetfarts Regular Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2022 Posts: 19
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Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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trumpetfarts wrote: | I think Lynn Nicholson said it best in some interview a while back. Playing high notes is a spiritual thing.
I agree.
And, not all of us are spiritual players. |
^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^
Playing high notes is a spiritual thing.
People who can soar above the band and atop the music with a big, fat high A, a dubba C, or a dubba G above that know the feeling. I've never climbed Mt. Everest, but it's gotta be the same as reaching the summit and screaming, "I DID IT!" You're at the top, and you are the top.
You can play the Brandenburg 2 flawlessly, 100 choruses of Coltrane's Giant Steps a tempo, the greasiest blues, and the most soulful ballad a la Till Bronner. But nothing feels as electrifying as launching salvos of high notes from that sonic brass cannon.
It's spiritual!
Having the dubba C ready at a moments notice is so empowering and ego boosting Nothing in trumpet playing equals being able to have in if/when you need it, even if that is only rarely. _________________ ----------------------------------------------------
Beans, beans the musical fruit.... Hey, it's easier than playing the damn trumpet. |
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tmaudlin Regular Member
Joined: 27 Aug 2012 Posts: 67 Location: Keizer, Oregon
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Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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I think playing high is great, but I think the 1st chair trumpet player
needs to be really good at interpreting music. The ability to play
a musical and set the tone for any type of music is really important.
Its just not about being able to play a high note. Learn to become
musical in your playing, musicals, band, orchestra etc. When that
solo comes you have to be able to feel the music and how you should
sound at the moment. Developing a good sound is important.
Thanks _________________ 1966 Bach 37 star on leadpipe
mouthpiece 10 3/4 EW (vincent bach corp.)
serial number 37351
Coming back after 40 + years |
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trumpetfarts Regular Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2022 Posts: 19
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Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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tmaudlin wrote: | I think playing high is great, but I think the 1st chair trumpet player
needs to be really good at interpreting music. The ability to play
a musical and set the tone for any type of music is really important.
Its just not about being able to play a high note. Learn to become
musical in your playing, musicals, band, orchestra etc. When that
solo comes you have to be able to feel the music and how you should
sound at the moment. Developing a good sound is important.
Thanks |
1st chair trumpet player, eh? Chairs is reminiscent of my high school day a million years ago. In my world, there are just players, not chairs. The former makes music, the later is something you sit on.
Now, don't derail the premise of this thread with a sidebar regarding sound. It's implied that high notes being played both sound good and are in proper musical context. Brandenburg #2 is a classic example (pun intended).
However, Brandenburg #2 is, IMHO, is as exciting as a late-night yawn. 🥱 You're not going to find that tune on many trumpet player's playlist, much less a non-trumpet player's playlist. You certainly won't find it on mine.
Instead, you're much more likely to find Maynard Ferguson and his minions of high note enthusiasts.
Does Maynard have good sound? Some would debate that. The debate matters not IMO. The point of high notes (what I consider high, say well above the staff), is that a different vibration and energy are communicated through those notes. High notes transmit pure sonic power that 'pretty' playing in the normal range of the trumpet does not. and cannot. It's pure electricity when done right. And frankly, listeners loved to be shocked out of the dull reality of their normal boring existence. This is where high notes start to transcend the material world of music into the spiritual, as has been suggested.
Case in point: here's a not so well known live album, Jam Session, featuring Maynard Ferguson playing along with two other jazz legends, Clifford Brown and Clark Terry. Listen to the audiences reaction in the background to Maynard's playing vs the other two. While they play some tasty jazz in their unique individual styles, with Clifford even up in the upper register, Maynard literally blows them away with the sheer power of his range and sound, and the audience eats it up. In fact, listen to the tune I linked to below.
I adore Clark's musical ideas and Clifford's, lines and technique, but damn, listen to Maynard just sail above it all and illicit a whole different reaction from the audience. They audience gasps and applauds in the *middle* of Maynard's solo when he sails up to the dubba C. They can't help themselves but to applaud. Simply WOW!.
Here's a barn burner of a tune to illustrate what I'm talkin' about...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P_28DqjQ7g&t=1220s
And as for just pure nuclear energy, range, sound and precision of a machine,, there's Wayne (Waynard) Bergeron. His trademark tune, Endless Torture, just showcases what high notes are are about, and why every (almost every) trumpet player wants to be able to play them and produce that energy. I'm currently working on getting this tune performance ready myself, just so I can wow audience and show world that I've got 'it'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDBvYBvJoHc
There just ain't anything like them high notes! _________________ ----------------------------------------------------
Beans, beans the musical fruit.... Hey, it's easier than playing the damn trumpet. |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 1:57 am Post subject: |
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Some people develop if they grow older, some will have a 15 years kid brains all their lives. |
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sd4f Veteran Member
Joined: 30 Dec 2009 Posts: 102 Location: Australia
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:12 am Post subject: |
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trumpetfarts wrote: | Now, don't derail the premise of this thread with a sidebar regarding sound. It's implied that high notes being played both sound good and are in proper musical context. Brandenburg #2 is a classic example (pun intended).
However, Brandenburg #2 is, IMHO, is as exciting as a late-night yawn. 🥱 You're not going to find that tune on many trumpet player's playlist, much less a non-trumpet player's playlist. You certainly won't find it on mine. |
Brandenburg isn't a trumpet solo. It's high and demanding, and that's where I think we get the difference between trumpet players who play high, and trumpet players who can play high. What do I mean by this;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDB5Bi18iW8
Also note, audience is full, and I doubt they're all trumpeters.
I haven't found a better brandenburg 2 recording on youtube, in terms of my taste. Point I'd like to make with it is that Reinhold Friedrich is capable of performing the entire concerto with full expression. His high register is a full part of his range, because he is able to play those notes musically and blend well with other instruments acoustically as the performance requires.
What I'm going to write next will probably be an unpopular opinion, but oh well. I don't play or really listen to any jazz, because it doesn't really interest me musically. At some point in time, it seems to me correlating with the popular decline of jazz that began decades ago, it just became this onanistic display of prowess, rather than being musical. For trumpet, everything becomes a blast fest, serving absolutely nothing except to impress those esoteric few who know enough to appreciate the technical difficulty.
So the question I tend to ask myself for when I hear jazz trumpet a lot of the time is, if anyone played it on a keyboard, or any other instrument, where sounding one note is as easy as any other, would anyone care?
I think what I'm getting around to saying in a rather wordy way is, I think sometimes we get a little bit too caught up in the athleticism of trumpet playing, and treat it like a sport, rather than music, which is an artistic and creative outlet. Nothing exemplifies trumpet playing as a sport better, than playing high, for the sake of playing high, in my humble opinion. |
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dschwab Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2004 Posts: 518
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:05 am Post subject: |
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It would be nice if all trumpet players wanted to play musically |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 988 Location: Europe
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:26 am Post subject: |
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delano wrote: | Some people develop if they grow older, some will have a 15 years kid brains all their lives. |
There are plenty of 15 year olds who are more developed than folk thrice their age. _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 6:09 am Post subject: |
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stuartissimo wrote: | delano wrote: | Some people develop if they grow older, some will have a 15 years kid brains all their lives. |
There are plenty of 15 year olds who are more developed than folk thrice their age. |
In Holland we say: 'wie de schoen past trekke hem aan'. (who fits the shoe he'll put it on).
Last edited by delano on Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:58 am; edited 5 times in total |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 6:15 am Post subject: |
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sd4f wrote: |
I haven't found a better brandenburg 2 recording on youtube, in terms of my taste. Point I'd like to make with it is that Reinhold Friedrich is capable of performing the entire concerto with full expression. His high register is a full part of his range, because he is able to play those notes musically and blend well with other instruments acoustically as the performance requires.
What I'm going to write next will probably be an unpopular opinion, but oh well. I don't play or really listen to any jazz, because it doesn't really interest me musically. At some point in time, it seems to me correlating with the popular decline of jazz that began decades ago, it just became this onanistic display of prowess, rather than being musical. For trumpet, everything becomes a blast fest, serving absolutely nothing except to impress those esoteric few who know enough to appreciate the technical difficulty.
So the question I tend to ask myself for when I hear jazz trumpet a lot of the time is, if anyone played it on a keyboard, or any other instrument, where sounding one note is as easy as any other, would anyone care?
I think what I'm getting around to saying in a rather wordy way is, I think sometimes we get a little bit too caught up in the athleticism of trumpet playing, and treat it like a sport, rather than music, which is an artistic and creative outlet. Nothing exemplifies trumpet playing as a sport better, than playing high, for the sake of playing high, in my humble opinion. |
Great post. Sometimes I feel what we call in Dutch 'alternate shame' if I see a clip with 3 or 4 of the top trumpetplayers acting as kids for finding out who has the longest.
It's killing jazz. And it's not only trumpets, sax players do the same with showing off absurd technics. |
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