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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9031 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 7:40 am Post subject: |
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I don't think this needs a volume of text. I see it in simple terms and that is simply in what your goals are and where your aesthetics lie.
Some are deep and substantial, some superficial. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 988 Location: Europe
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 9:49 am Post subject: |
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delano wrote: | In Holland we say: 'wie de schoen past trekke hem aan'. (who fits the shoe he'll put it on). |
Thanks for the compliment.
kehaulani wrote: | I see it in simple terms and that is simply in what your goals are and where your aesthetics lie. |
That’s quite sensible. Well put. _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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Trumpetstud Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2021 Posts: 208
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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delano wrote: | Shaft is right, it’s a logical problem. As soon as you find one trumpet player who doesn’t want to play high the statement is wrong. At the same time: what does your statement mean? Because I tend to agree for some part of the general idea but then there is more:
(Almost) all trumpetplayers want:
to play fast
a big car
to have a perfect tone
to have a dog
to have a perfect attack
to date all the nice girls
to be better than other trumpet players (you can read this as: to feel happy)
to have a voluntary diaphragm
So again, what are you trying to say? |
As a kid in band ALL the trumpet players wanted to play as high as they could. In college you ALWAYS (hehe) heard guys in the practice room trying to scream etc. it’s just what u do on the trumpet. NOW, that said that is for a lot of tpt just in the practice room. In performances you play as musically as you can, but after you stand in front of the mirror and say “I can play higher than you”! Just my opinion and observations from ALL trumpet players I’ve seen and heard. |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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Trumpetstud wrote: |
As a kid in band ALL the trumpet players wanted to play as high as they could. In college you ALWAYS (hehe) heard guys in the practice room trying to scream etc. it’s just what u do on the trumpet. NOW, that said that is for a lot of tpt just in the practice room. In performances you play as musically as you can, but after you stand in front of the mirror and say “I can play higher than you”! Just my opinion and observations from ALL trumpet players I’ve seen and heard. |
I believe you but still this is a certain group of players, certainly not all of them.
Second, this is kind of a sad thing. Not only because playing (extremely) high is just one aspect of trumpet playing but more that people seem to judge others and themselves by the level of how talented they are, sadly the only thing you can not influence, you cannot work on (lack of) talent and if you have that talent, you got it free without any effort from your side needed. Very sad indeed. |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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stuartissimo wrote: | delano wrote: | In Holland we say: 'wie de schoen past trekke hem aan'. (who fits the shoe he'll put it on). |
Thanks for the compliment.
kehaulani wrote: | I see it in simple terms and that is simply in what your goals are and where your aesthetics lie. |
That’s quite sensible. Well put. |
1. Maybe I misunderstood you but though you write well the content and the subject of your writings are often dim for me, so possibly I reacted to blunt.
2. If I see it in simple terms kehaulani is right nor wrong but simply aviod the subject. Or to say it in a different way: he chooses the escape of the cultural relativism. |
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sd4f Veteran Member
Joined: 30 Dec 2009 Posts: 102 Location: Australia
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Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 2:15 am Post subject: |
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Here's a quote from Maurice Andre;
Quote: | "It takes a strong personality to make an impact with the trumpet, you're like a matador in a bull ring. I see flutists and oboists go on the stage gingerly. If you do that with the trumpet you're finished. You have to go on as a winner." |
I think that is a component to the generalisation that trumpeters want to play high. Brass instruments are loud, and have absolutely no trouble dominating any natural acoustic soundscape. I think that has to play on the psychology of a trumpeter. |
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rothman Veteran Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2014 Posts: 329
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Seldom mentioned for it, Harry James did play strong notes often to about a high G. With his home base in Vegas he was seen once in the audience at a Maynard show, leaving early, which Maynard wondered why. Nonetheless, he must have had some reason to be there.
There is one story, but unconfirmed, of Bobby Shew hearing him back stage behind a door in a dressing room playing -- very good Dbl C's.
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Trumpetstud Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2021 Posts: 208
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Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:22 am Post subject: |
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I don't think any trumpet player worldwide or even on here has never tried to see how high they could play. Yes we want to play musically, but everyone has wondered, everyone has tried. High is subjective. High to me may not be high to someone else. There are all kinds of "excuses" we have made on this topic about "I just want to play in the middle register and make beautiful music". That may be true but you have at some point in your life as a trumpeter tried to see what you could do. You hear a fellow student playing a C or a D and you gotta check to see if you could do it too. I will never believe anyone that says they have never thought about it or tried. I just talked to a drummer today and I posed the same statement to him. His response "of course, all trumpet players want to play high that's what they do"!
js |
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trumpetfarts Regular Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2022 Posts: 19
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Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 2:42 am Post subject: |
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.. _________________ ----------------------------------------------------
Beans, beans the musical fruit.... Hey, it's easier than playing the damn trumpet.
Last edited by trumpetfarts on Sun Jul 09, 2023 1:05 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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RussellDDixon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2014 Posts: 832 Location: Mason, OH
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Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 8:16 am Post subject: |
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Playing high is part of the range of the instrument as is playing low. I am of the belief that anyone can learn to play high; it just takes work and knowing how to practice, compress air ad nauseum. As one professional stated, it is the synergy of multiple aspects of playing. In my experience, many either are NOT using the proper tools as Bobby Shew has stated … or … they do not understand Air Compression. It’s that simple. Allen Vizzutti is on record as having stated that the “vast majority of trumpet players play mouthpieces that are too big.” I’d have to agree. Equipment DOES matter – the correct tools for the job and knowledge as well as synergy are also variables. Arturo Sandoval claims that he “never practiced range.” I can believe it as my belief is that just practicing anything correctly builds range. Bill Chase who was fired on Maynard’s band and later added a lot of range did so playing Long Tones (simplicity). He was known to play Long Tones for up to 45 minutes right after a gig. _________________ Schilke X3 Bb trumpet
Yamaha 631g Flugelhorn
Nicholson Monette Prana Resonance LT mouthpiece
Kanstul Claude Gordon Personal mouthpiece |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9031 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 8:39 am Post subject: |
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Russell, you're assuming that everyone who can't, wants to. There are many excellent players who just hear the trumpet in middle and lower tessituras. To use an example everyone can relate to,, a guy like Chet Baker just wouldn't ever consider, and may even find it objectional, to play his solos in Jon Faddis' register. The world is, and has been, full of such trumpeters. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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RussellDDixon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2014 Posts: 832 Location: Mason, OH
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Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:51 am Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | Russell, you're assuming that everyone who can't, wants to. There are many excellent players who just hear the trumpet in middle and lower tessituras. To use an example everyone can relate to, a guy like Chet Baker just wouldn't ever consider, and may even find it objectional, to play his solos in Jon Faddis' register. The world is, and has been, full of such trumpeters. |
Brother ... you are so right!!! Tessituras = Dinosaur ? _________________ Schilke X3 Bb trumpet
Yamaha 631g Flugelhorn
Nicholson Monette Prana Resonance LT mouthpiece
Kanstul Claude Gordon Personal mouthpiece |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9031 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:58 am Post subject: |
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RussellDDixon wrote: | Tessituras = Dinosaur ? |
Yes. When I was young Tesssituras were still walking the Earth.
I got my fundamental trumpet chops by blowing on hallowed out Centrosaurus horns. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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RussellDDixon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2014 Posts: 832 Location: Mason, OH
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Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Awesome ... I too chunked spears with Rachel Welch in 10 Million BC ... _________________ Schilke X3 Bb trumpet
Yamaha 631g Flugelhorn
Nicholson Monette Prana Resonance LT mouthpiece
Kanstul Claude Gordon Personal mouthpiece |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 988 Location: Europe
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Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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The basic premise is somewhat flawed too. While most players probably wouldn't object to being able to play high notes if given the ability to do so instantly, the question becomes somewhat different when there are downsides to it (as happens in the real world). I'm positive that if the question were amongst the line of: 'would you rather play high or in tune?', or 'if you practiced nothing else except high notes for 10 years, would it be worth it?', for most players the answer would be a lot more nuanced.
Someone once wrote on these forums: 'would you choose to have the same range as <specific infamous player> if you also had to sound like him for the rest of your life?' I can definitely confirm that I'd rather not play high notes if that were the tradeoff. _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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jasongroooms333 New Member
Joined: 19 Jun 2013 Posts: 1
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 5:22 am Post subject: |
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Yep, all want to be able to play high. Maybe not stay up there, but definitely be able to to play high. Can't imagine anyone NOT wanting the ability. |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5681 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:12 am Post subject: |
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From my perspective, there's a certain excitement to the sound of a trumpet in the high register and it doesn't matter if it's Maynard screaming and doing shakes, or Wynton playing the Michael Haydn concerto.
Hitting high notes is something that seems to permeate music in general. Don't believe me? What about Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey, Ariana Grande, Steve Perry, Freddie Mercury, David Coverdale, etc?
All of the singing TV shows all focus on singers who can belt the glory notes. The same applies to trumpet playing, and that's why we strive for it.
It's been a confounding thing in my life that I can rip on the horn for a full gig, provided that the notes on the page are 2nd ledger D and below. If I had an additional 4th or 5th of usable range....? But I don't.
Now that I've finally retired from military band service, I'm working on finding a teacher who can help me with my embouchure to see if I can get some additional range unlocked. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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Seymor B Fudd Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015 Posts: 1473 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 4:11 am Post subject: |
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Back in the day, in the swingband, we played mostly original scores from the swing era. I had no problems at all with my range, playing lead.
Well, Well git it was a challenge. I had to put the highest parts down one octave.
Fast forward to present days. Many a modern score demands the ability to play, solidly, musically, up to at least A.
Which means that I´ve have problems since my upper range today stops at E. On good days.
For some reasons composers, arrangers has broadened the span. Why is that?
Personally I don´t fancy high notes per se - the essential thing should be the sound, the resonance it creates in us. In my opinion.
Of course I would be vary satisfied if I could play like Maurice in Telemann´s Concerto in D (another thread, OP Keheulani). But the high notes there are integrated within the music, not some "show off".
BTW there is a little monkey, the Death Scull Monkey who enjoys patrolling his territory while holding his erect you know what in a firm grip. _________________ Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5681 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 4:38 am Post subject: |
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Seymor B Fudd wrote: | Fast forward to present days. Many a modern score demands the ability to play, solidly, musically, up to at least A.
Which means that I´ve have problems since my upper range today stops at E. On good days.
For some reasons composers, arrangers has broadened the span. Why is that? |
I think it has to do with the fact that during the swing era, lead players with exceptional range - guys like Harry James, Maynard, Doc, etc - were born, not made.
When I was in HS it was rare to find another high school player who had any kid of real range past 2nd ledger C. As time has gone on and we have more understanding of how the embouchure works and how it can be trained, lead players can be made, and that's why newer charts have lead lines written up past G and A.
That's a theory anyway. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2596
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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 5:06 am Post subject: |
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rothman wrote: | Seldom mentioned for it, Harry James did play strong notes often to about a high G. With his home base in Vegas he was seen once in the audience at a Maynard show, leaving early, which Maynard wondered why. Nonetheless, he must have had some reason to be there.
There is one story, but unconfirmed, of Bobby Shew hearing him back stage behind a door in a dressing room playing -- very good Dbl C's.
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I've heard one recording where Harry got an Ab, another where he got an A - both solid and big. Numerous where he hit Gs - I know on one of the tracks on "Harry James In Hi-Fi" he starts out a line picking off a nice fat G. It doesn't seem outside the realm of plausibility that he could have had a practice room dub C. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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